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Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada? - Dhamma Wheel

Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?

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retrofuturist
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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:12 am

Greetings Robert,

How is Samma Samadhi as a component of the Noble Eightfold Path regarded in the teachings of Sujin Boriharnwanaket?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby robertk » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:14 am

It is an essential factor retro.

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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:14 am

Cool. Thanks Robert.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:02 am


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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby robertk » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:36 am

there seem to 3 points you are bringing up:

1. a Matthew kosuta (not sure who he is: is he the person you referred to on teh otehr thread who has 'an informed opinion"?)said that according to Sujin, "Cetana as a cetasika is said to only arise, as with all paramattha dhamma, due to “conditions and accumulations”, a person as anatta cannot will another anatta constituent into being. Kamma as traditionally understood in the Sutta literature is thus negated."

Do you think kamma is negated because of the anattaness of elements such as cetana? In fact Sujin's talks on kamma and vipaka range into hundreds of recorded hours. Kamma and its results are given great emphasis, I would say.

2. Some of Sujin's students have questioned the Mahasi technique. But does that mean she is 'out there', as you put it. I think you would have to provide evidence from the texts, what if the criticisims had some justification based on scripture.

I should note that a book by another Burmese 'master' that dissed mahasi technique is banned in burma, so it seems to be a sensitive topic, but I am happy to participate if you want to say anything. Either we can do it here or on that topic you gave a link to (thanks for that).

3. How does one cultivate samma samdhi and Samma sati according to Sujin?
I make a new topic to discuss this in detail. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5167

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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:49 am


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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby robertk » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:00 am

[quote="tiltbillings]So, Kevin, a follower of Sujin and a claimant of being ariya, says there is no choice: http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 560#p56622

.[/quote]
I think kevins claim's should be left aside. As to whether he represents Sujin correctly, that can also be left aside.

How about discussing directly with me here or citing any of Sujin's translated books (which are all available freely on the internet at abhidhamma.org, vipassana.info, zolag.co.uk and several other sites.

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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:03 am


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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby robertk » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:06 am

This thread started in the classical section as it was replying to Tilts observation that "sujin's teaching was 'out there'. and I am only interested in replying from a classical Theravada perspective.

Why has it been moved to free for all?

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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:10 am


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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:17 am

Robert,

Is Ven Dhammanando wrong here?: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2551&p=35840&hilit=+Sujin#p35840


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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:30 am



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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:56 am


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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby robertk » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:42 am

[quote="tiltbillings. The use of techniques to cultivate concentration and mindfulness are skillful means, not the real practice, which is attending to what is seen, heard, sensed, and cognized with an attentive, concentrated mind. Are you saying she would reject that?[/quote]

She would say the real practice is when there is sati and sampajana that knows/experiences/insights what is seen, heard, sensed, and cognized.

Khanika(momentary) samadhi is certainly present at such moments as is [yoniso] manisikara (attention) and of course one can easily have these elements- in fact one cannot stop them arising. But khanika samadhi and yoniso arise with both kusala and akusala moments.

The hard part is having the ones that come with sati-sampajana - and these factors do not arise with every moment.

Focusing and concentring and wishing will not make them arise.


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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:19 pm


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Re: Sujin Boriharnwanaket: teaching's diverge from Theravada?

Postby robertk » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:08 am

More about kamma and anatta here:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5195


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