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Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket - Page 5 - Dhamma Wheel

Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:37 am


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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:44 am



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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:48 am


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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:50 am



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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:57 am


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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:41 am



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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:44 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:48 am


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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:49 am

Last edited by Virgo on Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:50 am



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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:55 am



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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:09 am

Greetings Kevin,

I know I wouldn't trust one single translator to accurately translate the suttas, so if I placed as heavy emphasis on the Visuddhimagga as you do, I certainly wouldn't be relying exclusively upon a single English translation, without knowing the Pali underlying it. This is especially so given the regard in which venerable Nanamoli is reported to have viewed the work - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4648 . Furthermore, post Visuddhimagga translation, Nanamoli Bhikkhu's understanding of the Dhamma changed somewhat and when translating the Majjhima Nikaya, he translated certain terms in a different way to what he had done when translating the Visuddhimagga. Bhikkhu Bodhi didn't approve however, and took it upon himself to re-translate parts of Nanamoli Bhikkhu's original translation manuscript, back in line with the earlier precedents... hence the dual translatorship attributed to the Wisdom Books translation of the Majjhima Nikaya.

I guess how much confidence you place in Nanamoli Bhikkhu's translation is up to you to discern.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:18 am


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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:40 am



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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:48 am

I am at work, so I do not have the book in front of me, but there is a detailed translation glossary in the back of the book listing the Pali terms and Ven Nanamoli's chosen translation for any particular term. While it may not be perfect, it is a very carefully done translation.

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:01 am



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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:09 am

Greetings,

Very interesting - thanks Kevin.

Personally I'd go with the 2nd definition of each term, though for 'rupa', not in a way that seems to restrict it exclusively to the visual channel. 8-) This being the Classical forum, it's not my perspective that holds sway though, however I find it heartening that Bhikkhu Nanamoli included and accepts the name-and-form rendering. He seems to be taking a bet either way.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:09 am

I don't quite see the point that Retro was trying to make.

It was clearly nama-rupa that Kevin was referring to, and whether one chooses to render that in English as name and form or materiality and mentality doesn't matter, any more than whether they choose to render dukkha as suffering, stress, or satisfactoriness.

I'm not saying that there could not be problems with the translation of some passages in the Visuddhimagga (or the Suttas), but I don't see the relevance of this line of discussion, unless it is to suggest that the translation is so unreliable that we should simply ignore it, which seems unlikely and rather off the point of this particular conversation.

Mike

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:26 am


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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:30 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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