a few quick trivia questions to keep me off my toes and you on your bum
Are sabba and sabbe the same word different number, i.e.:
sabba = nom. sing.?
sabbe = nom. pl.?
Or does one mean 'whole', the other 'all/every'?
Are both terms used in different versions of anapanasati and satipatthana in different countries/canons?
Can 'passambhayam' mean: [calm/calmed; having calmed; having been calmed; being calm'] instead of ['calming']?
Passive past participal or gerund or something else instead of whatever it usually is translated as?
Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
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Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
I'm a beginner, but seems like Sabba and Sabbe are the same word, but in different numbers to agree with a noun. So, sabba = whole, and sabbe = all. The whole person (singular), all of the people (plural). Still my guess, though.
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Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
I am also a beginner at Pali, but think that:
sabbe = one
sabba = all, every
sabbe = one
sabba = all, every
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Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
I'm not sure, but I think they both probably should have a meaning that is consistent (as long as they're read in the same context). Like the following:David N. Snyder wrote:I am also a beginner at Pali, but think that:
sabbe = one
sabba = all, every
Every person. (sabba)
Every people. (sabbe)
All of the person. (sabba)
All of the people. (sabbe)
The whole of a person. (sabba)
The whole of a people. (sabbe)
Etc.
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Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
sabba is not a proper Pali form - it is the undeclined form of the pronoun. The only place you would find it is in a compound, e.g.:lojong1 wrote:a few quick trivia questions to keep me off my toes and you on your bum
Are sabba and sabbe the same word different number, i.e.:
sabba = nom. sing.?
sabbe = nom. pl.?
Or does one mean 'whole', the other 'all/every'?
sabbabuddhānubhāvena sadā sotthī bhavantu te. (sing)
in which case, it can be either plural or singular, as signified by the noun in the compound.sabbadānaṃ dhammadānaṃ jināti. (pl)
Perhaps you are thinking of the form "sabbaa" or "sabbā"?
If so, sabbā and sabbe are both pathamaa (nominative) and dutiyaa (accusative) plural, one being masc. and the other feminine:
satañca gandho paṭivātameti, sabbā disā sappuriso pavāyati. (fem.)
ekaṃ nāma kiṃ"? "sabbe sattā āhāraṭṭhitikā
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that sabba is not used in any canon, except when contracted in a compound; sabbaa and sabbe are used in all, as explained above.Are both terms used in different versions of anapanasati and satipatthana in different countries/canons?
According to the vinaya commentary:Can 'passambhayam' mean: calm/calmed; having calmed; having been calmed; being calm' instead of 'calming'?
Passive past participal or gerund or something else instead of whatever it usually is translated as?
passambhayaṃ cittasaṅkhāra nti oḷārikaṃ oḷārikaṃ cittasaṅkhāraṃ passambhento, nirodhentoti attho.
I think passambhaya is a past participle already... meaning "made calm". So: "I will breathe [so that] the bodily formations are calmed"passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ assasissāmi ... pe ... passasissāmīti sikkhatī ti oḷārikaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ passambhento paṭippassambhento nirodhento vūpasamento assasissāmi passasissāmīti sikkhati.
You can't just "make" it a gerund, though That would be passambhetvaa:
Best wishes,pubbe khvāhaṃ, bhante, gelaññe passambhetvā passambhetvā kāyasaṅkhāre viharāmi, sohaṃ samādhiṃ nappaṭilabhāmi.
Yuttadhammo
Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
"yuttadhammo wrote:I think passambhaya is a past participle already... meaning "made calm". So: "I will breathe [so that] the bodily formations are calmed"
So-- 'Passambhayam kaayasankhaaram passasissaami' might be better translated as: 'The bodily formations [being already] calmed, I shall breathe in;" instead of "I breathe in [while intentionally] calming the bodily formations?
[edit: I'm now leaning toward kayasankhara = body fabricator]
Last edited by lojong1 on Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
I doubt it... the commentaries prefer the interpretation, "I will breathe making calm the formation of the body (singular, btw)" . Perhaps there is a missing verbal form, eg "karonto":lojong1 wrote:So-- 'Passambhayam kaayasankhaaram passasissaamii' might be better translated as: 'The bodily formations [being already] calmed, I shall breathe in;" instead of "I breathe in [while intentionally] calming the bodily formations?
[aha.m] passambhayam kaayasankhaaram [karonto] passasissaami
Just a guess, I'm not really an expert
Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
I would rather regard "passambhayam" as a present participle, meaning "while calming".lojong1 wrote:"yuttadhammo wrote:I think passambhaya is a past participle already... meaning "made calm". So: "I will breathe [so that] the bodily formations are calmed"
So-- 'Passambhayam kaayasankhaaram passasissaami' might be better translated as: 'The bodily formations [being already] calmed, I shall breathe in;" instead of "I breathe in [while intentionally] calming the bodily formations?
Mettāya,
Kåre
Kåre
Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
Because that's what it is in Pali or because that's the usual English wording?Kare wrote:I would rather regard "passambhayam" as a present participle, meaning "while calming".
Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
Because that's what it is in Pali.lojong1 wrote:Because that's what it is in Pali or because that's the usual English wording?Kare wrote:I would rather regard "passambhayam" as a present participle, meaning "while calming".
Mettāya,
Kåre
Kåre
Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
Thanks kare, I'm finding more confirmation of that by googling passambhati. Makes me want to get some proper study material for home--maybe the Pali set Beeblebrox recommended.
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Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
I probably wouldn't have gotten it if it wasn't for Kare's recommendation. By the way, it seems like the set also includes the variations, in brackets... so that's a very nice bonus. I still don't understand most of the Pali words, but I still read anyway to get the feeling of their patterns.lojong1 wrote:Thanks kare, I'm finding more confirmation of that by googling passambhati. Makes me want to get some proper study material for home--maybe the Pali set Beeblebrox recommended.
Actually... this morning, I read a line that seems relevant to this thread, from the Saṃyutta Nikāya:
"Na tvaṃ bāle pajānāsi, yathā arahataṃ vaco;
Aniccā sabbasaṅkhārā [sabbe saṅkhārā (sī. syā. kam.)], uppādavadhammino;
Uppajjitvā nirujjhanti, tesaṃ vūpasamo sukho"ti.
Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
and because it makes more sense in the process that is being described.Kare wrote:Because that's what it is in Pali.lojong1 wrote:Because that's what it is in Pali or because that's the usual English wording?Kare wrote:I would rather regard "passambhayam" as a present participle, meaning "while calming".
Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
The Pali texts usually make good sense.PeterB wrote:and because it makes more sense in the process that is being described.
Mettāya,
Kåre
Kåre
Re: Sabba Kaaya or Sabbe Kaaya? Passambhayam?
Particularly when approached without subjectivism...and your readings are admirable in that regard Kare.