beginner's progress

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
User avatar
octathlon
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:06 am
Location: USA

Re: beginner's progress

Post by octathlon »

PeterB wrote:This ( with full instruction ) is actually standard advice in several of the approaches to Theravadin Vipassana.
I am using the book Mindfulness in Plain English for the procedures. It states that it is Vipassana, and seems to be a combination of samatha and vipassana. Unfortunately there is no place where the instructions are clearly summarized. It seems to skip around, talking about one aspect for a page or two, then another aspect for a while, then back to the first, then on to a third. But I've tried to keep it simple for now, as I described in my first post.
jscuperstar wrote:lojong seems to be interested in deeper samatha states where as octathlon has never stated that this is what he is after.
("she" :smile: ). All I'm after with my meditation at this point is to develop right mindfulness and right concentration as part of following the noble eightfold path. :meditate: It is actually helping me with some of the other parts as well, though!

Thanks to everyone for the comments. :smile:
User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 5584
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: beginner's progress

Post by Kim OHara »

octathlon wrote:All I'm after with my meditation at this point is to develop right mindfulness and right concentration as part of following the noble eightfold path. :meditate: It is actually helping me with some of the other parts as well, though!
It will do that - every aspect of the 8FP helps and reinforces every other one.
It is often said that you can't develop right concentration without a base of sila (right speech, action and livelihood), but your meditation will also help your mindfulness of everyday actions and therefore support your sila.
It's a win-win scenario. :smile:
:namaste:
Kim
PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: beginner's progress

Post by PeterB »

octathlon wrote:
PeterB wrote:This ( with full instruction ) is actually standard advice in several of the approaches to Theravadin Vipassana.
I am using the book Mindfulness in Plain English for the procedures. It states that it is Vipassana, and seems to be a combination of samatha and vipassana. Unfortunately there is no place where the instructions are clearly summarized. It seems to skip around, talking about one aspect for a page or two, then another aspect for a while, then back to the first, then on to a third. But I've tried to keep it simple for now, as I described in my first post.
jscuperstar wrote:lojong seems to be interested in deeper samatha states where as octathlon has never stated that this is what he is after.
("she" :smile: ). All I'm after with my meditation at this point is to develop right mindfulness and right concentration as part of following the noble eightfold path. :meditate: It is actually helping me with some of the other parts as well, though!

Thanks to everyone for the comments. :smile:
I would urge you octhathlon to attend a retreat and get hands-on instruction.
PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: beginner's progress

Post by PeterB »

I am writing not to be divisive, but to be encouraging.
I have thought about the point I am about to make quite a lot in the last week or so.
I think that there are two main groups of people among the members. Far more important than whether they favour the Mahayana or Theravada, more important than whether they favour Samantha or Vipassana. Jhana or non Jhana..Goenka or Mahasi..is whether they attend regular retreats, even if they are day retreats.
I maintain that it is fairly easy to ascertain within a few postings those that do and those that dont.
It is not that all those who do all agree on all points, far from it. But there is a quantitative difference between the posts , questions and responses of those that have and those that have not.
I am not posting this as an invitation to a parlour game..but to urge those who have not attended retreats to do so. It will make all the difference ...really.
Reductor
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: beginner's progress

Post by Reductor »

PeterB wrote:... But there is a quantitative difference between the posts , questions and responses of those that have and those that have not...
May I inquire what the quantitative difference is?

The only thing I've noticed time and again is that those that partake of regular retreats more often recommend it. As to questions and advice, I find that the regular-ness of a member's retreats hasn't proven a reliable indicator of their helpfulness on this forum.
PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: beginner's progress

Post by PeterB »

I dont want to make a song and dance about this view thereductor, and I most certainly dont want to create an us and them. I would just urge all members who have not done so to do retreats. Then we will all be in the club.
There is no single factor likely to deepen practice which compares. I.M.O.
Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: beginner's progress

Post by Kenshou »

If your posts are any sort of measuring stick the distinguishing feature about the posts of those who go on retreats is that they like to tell other people to do retreats all the time. :tongue:

I'm joking. But really, I would contend that while of course periods of intense practice are great and there is no reason to talk against them, there is no special "Retreat-Ñāṇa" and there's a wide spectrum of practice situations, habits, and types that you just can't really generalize about. A person might do occasional retreats, another person might not do full retreats but meet frequently with teachers and practice well in between, the fact that one individual has the word "retreat" on their resume makes no difference.
PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: beginner's progress

Post by PeterB »

Well sorry to be retreat bore. But they actually do separate the wo/men from the cyber Buddhists.
You are free to differ of course.
And if you do differ , just differ. If you tell me you are joking I will suspect passive aggression. Insincere smiley follows. :smile:
Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: beginner's progress

Post by Kenshou »

First part is sarcasm, I'd be silly to suggest that you're really so one-dimensional. You aren't.

Use smileys and appear passive-aggresive, type neutrally and run the risk of seeming gruff. Can't win. Okay. I'll go with the second style.

The main place where I differ is on the issue of just how much generalization is acceptable. No doubt that doing frequent retreats is great. But there's a lot of room along the spectrum of practice and I'm doubtful that the word "retreat" is the pivotal thing in judging what is best.
Last edited by Kenshou on Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: beginner's progress

Post by PeterB »

Its pretty much the bees knees. Depending on whose running it and whether we are ready for it.
Lets put it another way. I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has attended a number of retreats, say three minimum, who did not think that it had a major impact on their practice.......


:popcorn: ( I swore that I would never use that smiley. What am I like... :? )
User avatar
octathlon
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:06 am
Location: USA

Re: beginner's progress

Post by octathlon »

Hi PeterB,

I have no doubt that you are right about retreats. :) I've already been looking to see where I might be able to attend one, when circumstances permit. In the meantime I'm trying to do as best as I can, and I hope it's OK to ask beginner's silly questions here. If not, why not make a sub-forum for us, so the advanced people can avoid our posts if they don't like to read them. I did put the word "beginner" in my title which could be taken as a warning.

:smile:
PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: beginner's progress

Post by PeterB »

Of course its OK to ask any question you need to ask octathlon. Its more than OK..its vital. Keep asking them.

:anjali:
Reductor
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: beginner's progress

Post by Reductor »

PeterB wrote:I dont want to make a song and dance about this view thereductor, and I most certainly dont want to create an us and them. I would just urge all members who have not done so to do retreats. Then we will all be in the club.
There is no single factor likely to deepen practice which compares. I.M.O.
Isn't that just what you've done here?

If you had kept the thrust of your post to "retreats are great, I suggest everyone does them as they strengthen practice regardless of factors x,y, and z" then I doubt that anyone would have anything negative to say. Instead you broadly label the members of this forum, dividing us up into two parts with one being elevated above the other based on a single factor. Where is the value of this?

You obliquely cast doubt on all of us that don't attend retreats regularly, which belies the value of our posts on this forum. Whereas you, who I assume attends retreats regularly, seldom venture in answering a post with anything more than 'get a teacher'. Not always helpful for the many of us that are unable to do so without severely compromising the rest of our lives.
PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: beginner's progress

Post by PeterB »

" compromising the rest of our lives thereductor " ?

When I first encountered Buddhadhamma I was a penniless student and there was only one place in the whole of the UK where one could learn Vipassana. I was sufficiently motivated . I trekked, hitched, and got there frequently.
Other people made their way there from Germany, Austria, France,and Spain. There was no social support for practising Buddhadhamma in a western context back then. Quite the reverse.
I assure you that I will continue to respond to many posts asking for details about the mechanics of meditation with " get a teacher". I make no apologies for it. I am frequently dismayed by attempts to coach inquirers in meditation online. I think it would be better to just give dana and help out around the neighborhood until people are in a position to attend retreats,even if only once a year.
Reductor
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: beginner's progress

Post by Reductor »

PeterB wrote:" compromising the rest of our lives thereductor " ?

When I first encountered Buddhadhamma I was a penniless student and there was only one place in the whole of the UK where one could learn Vipassana. I was sufficiently motivated .
Other people made their way there from Germany, Austria, France,and Spain. There was no social support for practising Buddhadhamma in a western context back then. Quite the reverse.
If I were a mere penniless student, you can bet your backside I'd be ordained.

However, I am father of two young children to whom I attend while my wife works. Far from the ideal situation for one that would take off for one or two weeks, at the cost of thousands. Simply traveling to the nearest city with a substantial Buddhist population costs a pretty penny, Peter. Even doing that much is beyond my capacity at this time.

But what is well within my capacity is the study of the canon and earnest meditation. I think that my posts reflect care and consideration for the practice, and personal progress. If that is insufficient to put them on level with your retreat enhanced ones, then so be it.

So, to clarify, I do not begrudge your enthusiasm for retreats and personal contact with teachers. What I do not appreciate is the backhanded attitude you seem to have toward those that practice in difficult situations not similar to your own.
Post Reply