I don't have any problems there. Besides it has the pali right next to it so you can always cross reference.mikenz66 wrote: Seriously? It's useful to have those translations, but I often find them almost impossible to read.
Recommend 3 good Pali translators
Re: Recommend 3 good Pali translators
Re: Recommend 3 good Pali translators
Another not so great translation which has biases. I have found several places where the word "womb" has been added (within brackets of course but still an unnecessary bias) where the womb is not mentioned in the palimikenz66 wrote:Ven Thanissaro's tranlations at http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Recommend 3 good Pali translators
Hi Sunrise,
Since I'm not fluent in Pali, or the historical context, I really have to rely on translators. But, to comment on one of your points, my understanding of the prevailing Brahaminical view at the time (from reading the work of Richard Gombrich, such as "What the Buddha Thought", for example) is that "other world" refers to a world after death. In which case "next world" is a sensible way to render it in English.
Perhaps one of our Pali/Historical experts would like to comment on these issues. I have nothing to add.
Mike
Sure, I'd pick Bhikkhu Bodhi over Ven Thanissaro for depth of scholarship and exposition of the various possible readings, but it is always interesting to compare.Sunrise wrote:Another not so great translation which has biases. I have found several places where the word "womb" has been added (within brackets of course but still an unnecessary bias) where the womb is not mentioned in the palimikenz66 wrote:Ven Thanissaro's tranlations at http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Since I'm not fluent in Pali, or the historical context, I really have to rely on translators. But, to comment on one of your points, my understanding of the prevailing Brahaminical view at the time (from reading the work of Richard Gombrich, such as "What the Buddha Thought", for example) is that "other world" refers to a world after death. In which case "next world" is a sensible way to render it in English.
Perhaps one of our Pali/Historical experts would like to comment on these issues. I have nothing to add.
Mike
Re: Recommend 3 good Pali translators
I agree. Not being too fluent in pali myself I also have no option but to reply on translations.mikenz66 wrote: Sure, I'd pick Bhikkhu Bodhi over Ven Thanissaro for depth of scholarship and exposition of the various possible readings, but it is always interesting to compare.
Since I'm not fluent in Pali, or the historical context, I really have to rely on translators.
Forget about "paraloka". Take the word womb for example. Specific pali words for womb could be "gabbasaya", "gabba", "lingehi". I have seen the word womb added in by some English translators where no such word is referred to in the pali. Although it is added within brackets it is still an unnecessary bias which motivates the reader to think in terms of many lifetimes and dilute them from thinking in terms of moment to moment in this lifetime. I'm just saying that it is better to watch out for such translator's biases, which I see are at a minimum in metta.lkmikenz66 wrote: But, to comment on one of your points, my understanding of the prevailing Brahaminical view at the time (from reading the work of Richard Gombrich, such as "What the Buddha Thought", for example) is that "other world" refers to a world after death. In which case "next world" is a sensible way to render it in English.
Perhaps one of our Pali/Historical experts would like to comment on these issues. I have nothing to add.
Re: Recommend 3 good Pali translators
On the other hand, one should be careful about other biases. My understanding is that in those cases where "womb" is added is where there is a "descent" talked about, it is arguable that comparison with other Suttas, and other background information, would indicate that it is implied by the wording. As I said, 'm no expert, but clearly I am much more likely to be guided by Bhikkhu's Bodhi, Thanissaro, Nanananda, etc,or Profs Gombrich, Gethin, Harvey, etc, than by the particular preferences of a non-expert....
As far I can understand, all of the above scholars are quite clear that the texts discuss post-mortem rebirth.
I think it would be sensible to separate what the language and the context implies from other questions, such as:
And, of course, many would say that it's irrelevant, and one should just get on with the 8-fold Path...
Mike
As far I can understand, all of the above scholars are quite clear that the texts discuss post-mortem rebirth.
I think it would be sensible to separate what the language and the context implies from other questions, such as:
- Were these teachings just to cater to then-current views?
- Where exactly is the Buddha being metaphorical rather than literal?
- Is there any point in worrying about such things?
And, of course, many would say that it's irrelevant, and one should just get on with the 8-fold Path...
Mike
Re: Recommend 3 good Pali translators
Btw. the pali word has the meaning of "to grow or to develop" not necessarily descent: http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philol ... :4371.pali" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;mikenz66 wrote:My understanding is that in those cases where "womb" is added is where there is a "descent" talked about
Descent would mean something is landing on a womb. However growing is something that an fetus does