I am still not sure I understand you but it seems to me that you ask whether a spaceship would appear in physical reality. Is this correct?5heaps wrote: i dont mean anything other than the straightforward thing being said.. since the pattern and the enterprise are one and the same, even a stoneage mind or a dog mind which observes the pattern will see the enterprise. or else there is nothing about the pattern which is the enterprise. in which case, why recognize it as the enterprise.
The problem with our mind is that we don't really access raw sense data. Our mind has genetically set patterns to interpret raw sense data, some are physical (like in the eye) and other are neurochemical. For example it take the mind some practice during early childhood to find out that things or people who are not in sight are not automatically non-existent. The baby's mind has to learn that the apparently vanished mother is just in the other room and can be heard. The mind has to learn how to interpret the sense data and we - as adults - have in general only access to the well established interpretations because these processes happen very fast. Even when one tries to see just colours one won't see the raw sense data until ones awareness discerns on a fitting temporal resolution.
So what we see are actually the patterns that have already been filtered and interpreted by the mind's established interpretation pattern. Have you tried to just listen to the sounds in your native language without knowing the meaning for example? Not an easy task. And that is just the surface.
As far as I know so far there is no way to directly insert patterns into a human mind. But science fiction speculates about this. Think of "The Matrix" for example. So yes, if one could copy the pattern of "The Enterprise" from my mind into the mind of someone millennia ago this person would perceive exactly what I perceive. And if this was not a pattern of fiction but a pattern my mind labels as "real" that person would feel sure that it really exists, via all the senses - like in "The Matrix".
The mind has a special way to label sense data - and this can fail. Hallucinations for example. It is not unusual for people who wake from artificial coma to hallucinate - but these hallucinations are stored wrongly and the persons would swear that it really happened. Because they recall it as a memory of something that really happened. Contact with a mental object happened (in this case with a hallucination) but the interpretation or storing process failed - but usually the mind is not able to know it.
This is one reason one starts to pay more attention to the processes and mental objects that can directly be observed, discerning "this is real memory, this is dream memory, this is imagination memory, this is hallucination memory ..." than the actual contents of these mind objects. When contact happens one first discerns "it is this object" and only then one takes a look at it's content. The content is just a pattern and without the knowledge of the mental object that carries it one gets lost within one's own mind
Well, if I would ask you to describe me, Freawaru, what would you find in your mind that you would call Freawaru? Is it colours and shapes on the computer screen, raw sense data?whats the concept pattern? raw sense data like colours and shapes appear directly not conceptuallyAnd second - of course the concept pattern (that what a sense pattern is compared to to be recognised) is changeable.
