How common is stream entry?

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:10 pm

I did. You said that you realised that you could change traffic lights by an act of will by doing a mudra at just the right moment. Which prompted a response from another former member saying that she could do that sort of thing too. The particular member in question stated in her link that she thought that the White Lions of Africa were Divine Incarnations.
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Vepacitta » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:08 am

That would be a handy skill to have!

I want it!

V.

NB - and Peter - of course the white lions are divine incarnations - everybody knows that!
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby octathlon » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:24 am

PeterB wrote:I did. You said that you realised that you could change traffic lights by an act of will by doing a mudra at just the right moment. Which prompted a response from another former member saying that she could do that sort of thing too.

What's so hard about that? I'm great at it. I can make 'em turn red every time without even trying. :D
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:34 am

Vepacitta wrote:That would be a handy skill to have!

I want it!


In some cities, it's not that hard to do. All you have to do is drive the speed limit. For example, in Denver the traffic lights are time coordinated so that if you drive the speed limit, you will make all green lights. They even adjust it a little for rush hours and higher traffic times so that if you stay in the flow of traffic without changing lanes and driving aggressively, you can make the green lights. No special powers, needed, just the compassion to drive the speed limit and not put others' safety at risk. :smile:
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Vepacitta » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:51 am

Brilliant, David!

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Virgo » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:21 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
Vepacitta wrote:That would be a handy skill to have!

I want it!


In some cities, it's not that hard to do. All you have to do is drive the speed limit. For example, in Denver the traffic lights are time coordinated so that if you drive the speed limit, you will make all green lights. They even adjust it a little for rush hours and higher traffic times so that if you stay in the flow of traffic without changing lanes and driving aggressively, you can make the green lights. No special powers, needed, just the compassion to drive the speed limit and not put others' safety at risk. :smile:

Or the akusala aversion to hiting a red...

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:38 am

From Zen Forum International:
Re: Friends
by BuddhiHermit on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:14 pm

I was reflecting on green lights today, and I realised that I have been changing them at will for the last 6 months at least.

There are 3 sets located in power places, obviously, along my path to work.

I have found that by merely willing it, these lights change to green every time I approach.

Mind you, it is not down to simple willing, but requires a special hand mudra to be performed at each location. Thankfully, it is the same mudra for all 3, and it is guaranteed to work every time after sunset. Peter B, you may wish to try it yourself, and discover your own power places.

I have found that willing my left hand to reach forward, while driving, and approaching a red light, that I can cause the light to change to green, as mentioned. The trick is mainly in performing the mudra correctly, as I have found I must reach out towards the steering wheel, placing the heel of that hand on the wheel, at about the centre of the rim. Then I must curl my fingers inward until they meet resistance. Pressing on through the resistance causes a clicking sound, a blue light (probably manifesting from the third eye) appears on the dashboard, and there is a sudden increase in the intensity of light right before me. Clearly, the manifestation of such power causes the offending traffic light to change to green.
No doubt we can hear Foghorn Leghorn
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Kenshou » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:44 am

What the heck am I reading?
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:47 am

Kenshou wrote:What the heck am I reading?
The msg directly above yours is from Zen Forum International. It is the msg that PeterB alluded to several msgs above.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:02 am

BuddhiHermit wrote:My experience suggests that close to 10% of the population have experienced stream entry where that is defined as a Transpersonal experience. (Can we avoid getting bogged down in detailed proscriptions and definitions?)

Perhaps 2% of those have any idea of what it's about. The rest try and forget it, as it just complicates an already difficult life.

1% or less, try to build on the experience.

Knowing this makes minimal difference to one's progress along the Way.

On the other hand, isn't it wonderful, just BEING a Stream enterer, or maybe an Arahant.

The only problem I have found, is that the moisture from the stream tends to dissolve the adhesive of those Gold or red or blue stickers, - but if you look carefully, you can still see where they have been. :sage:


I have qualms about referring on one forum to another. But I am grateful that Tilt reproduced the above post from ZFI because a current concern I have is the claiming of attainments, and I think Buddhihermits references to the wonderful nature of BEING a Stream enterer or may be an Arahant needed a context.
The context of the thread Tilt has quoted from makes it clear that the claim to change traffic lights was not a humorous claim.
Furthermore it was in conversation with two other people not currently posting on ZFI who I would suspect may have problems with reality. If on the other hand it was an attempt at humour the other people involved seemed to take it quite seriously and one suggested that such powers are known to her too. She was not corrected. Either by Buddhihermit or anyone else. It appears to be a claim to some kind of attainment.
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Ben » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:13 am

PeterB wrote:I have qualms about referring on one forum to another. But I am grateful that Tilt reproduced the above post from ZFI because a current concern I have is the claiming of attainments, and I think Buddhihermits references to the wonderful nature of BEING a Stream enterer or may be an Arahant needed a context.

Indeed. I didn't jump in earlier as I thought Buddhihermit was doing a great job of contradicting his own claim. 'Emperor's new clothes' so to speak.

PeterB wrote:The context of the thread Tilt has quoted from makes it clear that the claim to change traffic lights was not a humorous claim. Furthermore it was in conversation with two other people not currently posting on ZFI who I would suspect may have problems with reality.

I thought the added post from ZFI, even without your additional contextual information, was very telling. But thanks for providing the additional information.
kind regards

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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

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sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:34 am

Green Light thread

BuddhiHermit, you seem to be implying that you are at least a stream-winner in your msgs here.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:35 am

For anyone who follows the link, just to make it clear that my concerns were not about genkaku who is one of the sanest people I know, nor Linda nor Luz...
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:49 am

PeterB wrote:For anyone who follows the link, just to make it clear that my concerns were not about genkaku who is one of the sanest people I know, nor Linda nor Luz...
We do not need to re-litigate an old thread from another forum, but this msg viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5352&start=60#p85127 above does raise a question or two.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby beeblebrox » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:19 pm

PeterB wrote:I did. You said that you realised that you could change traffic lights by an act of will by doing a mudra at just the right moment.


I thought that this was meant to be taken ironically, like, if you're able to do a mudra right before the light changes, it might as well seem like you're doing it at your will. It's like some kind of synchronicity. What Tilt posted tells a completely different story. :jawdrop:
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby klqv » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:55 pm

a current concern I have is the claiming of attainments
a more interesting IMO question would not be what to make up people that claim certain attainments but what to make of people that do so sincerely and know how important it is and so are a little bit mad. i don't think pity is the right word but sympathy would be nice... sympathy and some compassionate re-education :lol:


Anyway to answer the original question, I believe that stream entry is incredibly rare in the age and I don't know how the theravada establishment treats these questions but I wouldn't believe it of anyone that wasn't deeply enmeshed in the church. FWIW I associate it with successful cultivation in zen [the ten abodes] or purifying the sense faculties in tendai [the ten faiths]. I'm somewhat open to the possibility that someone like Dogen was like an arhat but maybe just a good writer.

Another question that's a slight derail is about kensho experiences; I think these are related to the stages of heat / summit etc. in theradava; can these really occur within a few months of lay practice :?


Hello btw, I'm new.
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Sanghamitta » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:08 pm

Frankly klvq ( welcome btw ) I think that you are conflating at least two schools of Buddhism here.
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby klqv » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:12 pm

i don't know that i'm conflating them, i've related them in ways that i've seen in the literature.

except the comment on heat - that's a misunderstanding on my part.
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Sanghamitta » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:16 pm

There is no experience in the Theravada which is an obvious corollary to the "kensho" experience described in Zen.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Individual » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:34 pm

This is an old discussion but if I can add to it: There are no such thing as stream-enterers; that is, "stream-entering persons." This is only a conventional expression, because it is a process of non-becoming, of realizing anatta. Ordinary people don't understand this because they think in terms of self, not understanding the unconditioned they can only know things in terms of this or that conditioned dhamma, with regard to this or that person.
The best things in life aren't things.

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