The nature of the seven post Insight lives of a sotapanna

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Prasadachitta
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The nature of the seven post Insight lives of a sotapanna

Postby Prasadachitta » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:32 am

So I hear that a sotapanna goes to a heavenly realm for seven more rebirths. This must mean seven more spontaneous births right? I mean there are only mind made bodies in the heavenly realm correct?

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Re: The nature of the seven post Insight lives of a sotapanna

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:17 am

Stream-winners cannot be reborn in the lower realms — animal, hungry ghosts, jealous gods, or in hell. They can be reborn in the human realm, or in any of the deva and brahma realms, except for the Suddhāvasa Pure Abodes, where only Non-returners are reborn. They will, of course, become Non-returners and then Arahants within seven lifetimes.

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Re: The nature of the seven post Insight lives of a sotapanna

Postby Individual » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:36 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Stream-winners cannot be reborn in the lower realms — animal, hungry ghosts, jealous gods, or in hell. They can be reborn in the human realm, or in any of the deva and brahma realms, except for the Suddhāvasa Pure Abodes, where only Non-returners are reborn. They will, of course, become Non-returners and then Arahants within seven lifetimes.

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How could they become non-returners "and then" Arahants? If they don't return, where and how would they be reborn as Arahants?
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Re: The nature of the seven post Insight lives of a sotapanna

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:34 pm

Non-returners are so called because they never return to the human realm. They are reborn in the Pure Abodes where they attain Arahantship.
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Re: The nature of the seven post Insight lives of a sotapanna

Postby Individual » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:24 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Non-returners are so called because they never return to the human realm. They are reborn in the Pure Abodes where they attain Arahantship.

Ah. Thank you, Venerable. :)
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Re: The nature of the seven post Insight lives of a sotapanna

Postby fig tree » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:40 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Stream-winners cannot be reborn in the lower realms — animal, hungry ghosts, jealous gods, or in hell. They can be reborn in the human realm, or in any of the deva and brahma realms, except for the Suddhāvasa Pure Abodes, where only Non-returners are reborn.

Pleased to see you participating here, Bhante.

If a stream-winner is reborn as a human being, is the child remarkable in some way? Would they be born already having faith in the dhamma?

Is there an explanation for why it's seven lifetimes? I reason that the stream-winner who is born one, two, three etc. times must be distinctive in some way, to be guaranteed of at most six, five, four, etc. additional births, but I find it hard to imagine what sort of quality one might have by virtue of reaching the stream and then being reborn three times (say) that one would not necessarily have after just reaching the stream and being born twice more. But that's just a failure of my imagination. I wonder whether it can be attributed to fetters being weakened in specific ways.

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