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Mind and mind-object - Dhamma Wheel

Mind and mind-object

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

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phil
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Mind and mind-object

Postby phil » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:06 pm

Hi all

I was asking about this in a more general area, so at the risk of being obnoxious, please let me ask about it again here.

This from the Honeyball Sutta (MN 18)

"Depending on the mind and mind-objects, mind-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, there is feeling. What one feels, that one perceives. What one perceives, one thinks about. What one thinks about, one mentally proliferates. With what one has mentally proliferated as the source, perceptions and notions (born of ) mental proliferation beset a man with respect to past, future and present mind-objects congnizable by the mind."

It's easy to understand how, for example, "depending on the eye and forms, seeing-consciousness arises" but much harder (for me at least) to understand mind and mind-objects. Could you help me with this? Does it come down to Abhidhamma, to an object that is cognized through the eye door, for example, falling away to immediately be cognized through the mind-door, that the visible object that has fallen away is processed immediately as a mind object through the mind door? And what if it is a random thought that comes without any visual or auditory or any other prompting, what is that object? A blip of mental information that is not yet an idea or thought in the same way a blip of visual information is not yet a perceived thing such as a "tree" or whatever?

Thanks.

Metta,

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Mind and mind-object

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:36 pm

I don't think there is any satisfactory answer to these types of questions. If you want to know what a mind object is, then you need to meditate and observe your mind, seeing how thoughts and perceptions arise and pass away.

This is not a pipe:

Image

Why did I remember that picture as one of an infinite number of possible ways to illustrate the point I am trying to make?
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

phil
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:08 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: Mind and mind-object

Postby phil » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:16 am

Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

rowyourboat
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Location: London, UK

Re: Mind and mind-object

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:30 pm

Hi Phil
From what I understand mind door objects are just those initial blips of mental phenomena (like an old memory popping up for no reason)- not the results of latter processing. But this gets complicated as latter processing can lead in a cause and effect manner for mind door objects to pop up- but it is unclear where to draw the line - ie where mental processing stops and 'new' objects pop up.
with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

serg_o
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Location: Russia, Zhukovsky

Re: Mind and mind-object

Postby serg_o » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:09 am

Hello, phil

You can look at the section of contemplating "dhammas in dhammas" (Mental Qualities in Thanissaro bhikkhu translation, Mental Objects in Soma thera and Nanasatta translations) in , the sections about obstacles (nivarana) and factors of enlightment (bojjhanga). May be these pieces would be of help with your question. :hello:

best wishes,
Sergey

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Mind and mind-object

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:32 pm

Fascinating topic! It's loosely related to a thread I started .
But what Bhante says is so true, that there really are things that can only be found in word-less meditation.

That's my two cents :)


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mirco
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Re: Mind and mind-object

Postby mirco » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:57 am

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

dhamma follower
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Re: Mind and mind-object

Postby dhamma follower » Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:10 am


Emanresu
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Location: Germany

Re: Mind and mind-object

Postby Emanresu » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:00 pm


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mirco
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:12 pm

Re: Mind and mind-object

Postby mirco » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:53 am

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

lojong1
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Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: Mind and mind-object

Postby lojong1 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:42 am



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