YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Pali term or concept related to Grace? - Dhamma Wheel

Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

Vipassana1501
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:36 pm

Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Vipassana1501 » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:53 pm

I'm a Buddhist Chaplaincy student at the who's been asked to do some research on comparing/translating the Christian concept of Grace in regards to Theravada practices. I feel like I may be missing something obvious but I keep finding myself going down dead ends. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

User avatar
octathlon
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:06 am
Location: USA

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby octathlon » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:09 pm


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:10 pm


User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:35 pm


User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:47 pm

are you refering to the prayer in thanks? as in, at a meal?

if so Anumodana would be one that comes to my mind first, but also Sympathetic Joy from the Divine abodes would possibly fall under this sort of field?


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby bodom » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:03 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:10 pm

The other aspect of grace that I forgot to mention, I'm pretty sure it's seen as a gift, something you didn't earn.

This is the opposite of our understanding of kamma and of merit.

User avatar
Adrien
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: France

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Adrien » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:39 pm

In christianism, grace can be different things : an experience of the divine, an ability in a certain domain, or even the release of an addiction to cigarettes for exemple. All those things have one thing in common : they are given by God, and he only can give them. They never appear because of our efforts, they are just given (and we never deserve them). However, our efforts are necessary as a premilinary stage. For exemple, the three "vertues theologales" (sorry but I don't know the english name) which are faith, hope and charity are considered as graces, which can be given only if we have already developped the four cardinal virtues , wich are carefulness, moderation, strenght and justice.

In general, grace are only given if some efforts in the right way have already been done (generally contemplation). These efforts are necessary, but non sufficient, and that's why it is said that they are a gift (we don't deserve them).

In buddhism, we can have such things as realisations, or sudden things that arise in us. In fact, we call them sudden things, but we know that they only appear because of our work. So, for exemple, we meditate, we meditate, and we meditate again, and suddenly, something happen. There was no way to say that it would happen at this moment, but we know it was caused by our meditation. The Buddha said that it can be difficult to know at what point we are in our progression, and as it can create wonderings, we should just "do the work" without searching to know. If we're doing fine, the results will appear, sooner or later.

So, for both christianism and theravada, we cannot say when the "graces" will appear, or even if they will appear. But the difference is :
- in theravada, we think that these things are completely due to our practice (even if they seem to be sudden)
- for the christians, they are not caused by our practice, they are gift from God.

I'm not a specialist of christianism, so you will have to verify and adapt what I said about this...
Please don't hesitate to correct my english if you feel to

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 10648
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:05 pm

Image




User avatar
octathlon
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:06 am
Location: USA

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby octathlon » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:22 pm

I think it sounds like the exact opposite of making merit. :shrug:

Anicca
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:11 am
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Anicca » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:55 pm

Well, you certainly don't make grace - you do make merit - but then often one will dedicate the merit to others - the giving aspect of merit is perhaps similar to grace?
We all gave metta and merit to JC Superstar and James the Giant recently - Ben's horse got a good dose - ??? what they received might be considered our grace ???

I dunno ...

Metta

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby bodom » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:24 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:38 am


User avatar
octathlon
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:06 am
Location: USA

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby octathlon » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:45 am


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:52 am


User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby bodom » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:10 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
octathlon
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:06 am
Location: USA

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby octathlon » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:27 am

I don't remember whose specific posts they were, but comparing grace to either ripening of good kamma or dedicating merit seems like just too much of a stretch to me.

:smile:

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby bodom » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:36 am

And what is a Buddhist Chaplaincy? Buddhist priest program? There seem to be several concepts here that are foreign to the Theravada and Buddhist tradition as a whole. Maybe this thread could be moved to Free for all?

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:44 am


User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby bodom » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:48 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/


Return to “Pāli”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine