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About the value of studies - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

About the value of studies

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.
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Annapurna
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Annapurna » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:48 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Tex
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Tex » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:50 pm

Studies can be of tremendous value, if they are verifiable and reproduceable. Whenever the results of a new study are published, the first questions should always be, "was this a well-designed experiment that accurately measured what it claimed to measure?" and "has anyone duplicated these findings yet?". If the answer to either is "no", the study isn't worth very much (yet).

And Anna's point about considering who funded the study is critical. In one of my psych courses in college we read the reports of two different studies on a new medication. One was funded by the pharmacology company that created the medication, and the other was funded by the Food and Drug Administration. The results were quite different.

So studies can be beneficial or detrimental, depending on the agenda of those writing the check and the skill of those conducting the study.
"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus

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Annapurna
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Annapurna » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:55 pm

Quite so, Tex. :namaste:
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PeterB
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby PeterB » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:09 am


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Annapurna
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Annapurna » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:25 am

The topis is not about medical studies only.

ALL studies...
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PeterB
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby PeterB » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:44 am

It makes no difference. Just as studies are absolutely vital in assessing the efficacy of medicines, so they are in planning engineering projects. In assessing educational programmes. In experimental work in labs. In agriculture. In peace studies. In assessing the effect of diet of therapuetic techniques and meditation programmes.
Studies are broadly of two kinds quantitative and qualitative.
The Suttas are themselves qualitative studies.
Studies are utterly essential in all areas of human functioning.
The Pandora's box of scientifically cogent evidence based practise will never be closed again.
The day of anecdotal evidence is happily consigned to the dustbin of history.
A village wiseman or wisewoman operating in remote locations or in the past had to make the most of the knowledge and resources available. If their motivation was to ease suffering , then that is praiseworthy , despite their limited knowledge.
But that age of innocence is passed. To attempt to build a bridge, or design a curriculum, or treat an illness on the basis of anecdotal evidence and subjective assessments would now amount imo to a breach of Right Livelihood.
To give a parallel. In the 1920's a Buddhist could own a tobacco shop and deal in good conscience. The results of smoking were not known. That situation has now changed as a direct result of studies. And no Buddhist ( except perhaps in rural Asian locations ) could excuse their Livelihoods in the same way.
Pandora cannot be put back into the box...

Anicca
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Anicca » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:16 pm


Kenshou
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Kenshou » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:26 pm

Breaking news, people lie to get you to buy their junk.

Calahand
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Calahand » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:03 pm

"If this type of ignorace weren't so sad, I would have been rolling on the floor by now.

Still 20 years ago, every serious scientist dismissed acupuncture.

Now they have to admit that it works, because we have so much evidence.

In a while from now, it may be possible to explain how homeopathy works.

What any homeopath like me can already tell you today is this:

We know it works, and so do our healed patients.

We are 'tailors'. We don't make one suits that fits all.

We don't treat symptoms, but remove causes. "

I disagree with you, it is not ignorance to tell people the truth. If there is no evidence that it works, then as a good doctor (whether homeopathic or whatever) it is your duty to tell your patient that it may or may not work for them, if they are willing to try it, they can go ahead, but you are not even sure if it will help, it might as well harm, you just don't know!. And i am not talking about the subjective opinion that you "feel" that it works, but an objective one that has been established by independent repeated studies that show that YES it works.

The main philosophical principle that drives modern medicine is this , "DO NO HARM" - "Primum non nocere (in latin)" , and they do repeated studies to test what they know and do to patients such that they don't unknowingly harm the patient, and they also advance the knowledge of medicine in the process of testing themselves. This enables us as a society- to constantly check ourselves, and give people only those things that we are sure will help them. I can't believe people don't appreciate the time and effort that these medical doctors, researchers and establishments like FDA, CDC or NIH put into this effort. Sometimes as a scientist you might spend like 20-30 years of your life working on something and you realize that it doesn't work because someone else proved it for sure that it doesn't work, and you have to accept that. Its not right to call it ignorance.

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Vardali
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Vardali » Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:24 pm


username_5
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby username_5 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:30 pm

I have the utmost respect for the scientific method and less than the utmost respect for how various groups have manipulated trust in the scientific method for their own gains.

Of all the means of gaining knowledge I believe the scientific method reins supreme in those areas where it can be applied. This makes it a frequent target of charlatans and monied interests looking to profit from it's credibility.

I highly value scientific studies, but like many others have said, I look for the money trail. I consider it a strong bias and then look for confirmation from sources without that bias or even better with an opposed bias to confirm.

The method itself is blameless in my opinion even though it cannot be applied to all questions. The way it is manipulated is shameful and reveals the suffering we as humans must endure on our path to truth and happiness.

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Cittasanto
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:39 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Calahand
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Calahand » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:29 am

I don't know man, through out my medical education they told me "primium Non nocere" along with, "Don't do anything stupid , and you will be fine", so I think one of them is the first principle of modern medicine. Anyway, what you are saying about how you "harm" the guy to restore his health sounds "doing the stupid" to me, so I am guessing we don't do that in modern medicine. Oh yeah the whole killing the cancer by chemotherapy and that harming the patient ... that I can argue is not harming the patient, it is killing the cancer, and yeah in the process makes the guy really weak, but you are not harming the patient , you are saving them, even though you make them miserable, they will thank you once they are free of the disease.

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Annapurna
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Annapurna » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:40 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Annapurna
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Annapurna » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:58 am

Last edited by Annapurna on Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Shonin
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Shonin » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:01 am


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Annapurna
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Annapurna » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:28 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Annapurna
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Annapurna » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:36 am

Please understand I'm at work and don't have the time to provide you with English evidence. It can easily be googled I would hope if you* (general) question my professional expertise.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

Shonin
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Shonin » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:06 am


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Annapurna
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Re: About the value of studies

Postby Annapurna » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:49 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/


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