Richard Gombrich

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Jason
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by Jason »

Shonin wrote:I find his work fascinating. Whether we agree completely with him or not, I think he is exploring something very important for understanding the Buddha: context.

I contacted Richard Gombrich (who I believe lives quite near me in Oxford) after the publishing of 'What the Buddha Thought' and had a shortish email discussion with him especially about the way he presented Zen, albeit briefly. (My position was/is that he was treating Zen as a sort of garbled misunderstanding of Pali Buddhism - as if after the Buddha's death humanity was disconnected from actual practice/experience of dhamma/dharma. Because he is a Pali academic rather than a practitioner his concern is with the integrity of an intellectual philosophy. However, Buddhism is not an intellectual philosophy. The intellectual philosophy is merely a formulation of a path of practice, experiential insight and fruit of practice, which can be expressed in more than one form.)

I found him very pleasant and helpful.
I also contacted him via email regarding something he wrote in Theravada Buddhism: A Social History from Ancient Benares to Modern Colombo, and I too found him to be very pleasant. I was also happy (and somewhat surprised) to be able to point out a passage that he was unfamiliar with. I guess hanging out on these forums is good for something. :D
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

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Paññāsikhara
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by Paññāsikhara »

Shonin wrote: ... about the way he presented Zen, albeit briefly. (My position was/is that he was treating Zen as a sort of garbled misunderstanding of Pali Buddhism - as if after the Buddha's death humanity was disconnected from actual practice/experience of dhamma/dharma. Because he is a Pali academic rather than a practitioner his concern is with the integrity of an intellectual philosophy. However, Buddhism is not an intellectual philosophy. The intellectual philosophy is merely a formulation of a path of practice, experiential insight and fruit of practice, which can be expressed in more than one form.)
...
Welcome to the world of (what is rather facetiously known as) "Pali Text Society Buddhism".
You'll find a lot of old school Pali scholars, and some younger ones too, in this category.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Shonin
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by Shonin »

Paññāsikhara wrote:Welcome to the world of (what is rather facetiously known as) "Pali Text Society Buddhism".
You'll find a lot of old school Pali scholars, and some younger ones too, in this category.
:)
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tiltbillings
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by tiltbillings »

mikenz66 wrote: If you want some real information about Brahminic thought at the time of the Buddha, his work is an obvious choice.
This is where Gombrich is the strongest and is what makes his books worth reading.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by tiltbillings »

Paññāsikhara wrote: Also, in standard PTS mode, he tends to think of almost all other forms of Buddhism as types of corruption or degradation of the teachings. . . . .
Some of it is pretty gawdawful.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Shonin
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by Shonin »

tiltbillings wrote:
Paññāsikhara wrote: Also, in standard PTS mode, he tends to think of almost all other forms of Buddhism as types of corruption or degradation of the teachings. . . . .
Some of it is pretty gawdawful.
Perhaps, but that's not the same as to say that "almost all other forms of Buddhism as types of corruption or degradation of the teachings" nor even that Pali Buddhism is 'the best'.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by tiltbillings »

Shonin wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Paññāsikhara wrote: Also, in standard PTS mode, he tends to think of almost all other forms of Buddhism as types of corruption or degradation of the teachings. . . . .
Some of it is pretty gawdawful.
Perhaps, but that's not the same as to say that "almost all other forms of Buddhism as types of corruption or degradation of the teachings" nor even that Pali Buddhism is 'the best'.
Which is why I worded what I said the way I did.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
rowyourboat
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by rowyourboat »

How Buddhism do you think he has understood, the man who doesn't consider himself a Buddhist?

I'm not surprised they have shut down the post of Professor of Buddhism, after his retirement.

I met him once and found him saying that Buddhists weren't compassionate enough. He didn't quite seem to understand the compassion wasn't the point of Buddhism.

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mudra
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by mudra »

rowyourboat wrote:
I met him once and found him saying that Buddhists weren't compassionate enough. He didn't quite seem to understand the compassion wasn't the point of Buddhism.

RYB
Depends on what particular type of Buddhism you follow...
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tiltbillings
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by tiltbillings »

rowyourboat wrote:How [much] Buddhism do you think he has understood, the man who doesn't consider himself a Buddhist?
Don't be too quick to dismiss Gombrich. There is no reason you must agree with on everything he says or anything he says, but he is an interesting writer who is looking at early Buddhism in historical terms, which is quite useful. One of the things he has brought to the fore, which is almost totally missing from the commentaries is the brahmanical context within which the Buddha taught, and understanding that opens up the Buddha's teachings even more, giving us a view of just how creative and insightful the Buddha was as he responded to the brahmanical ideas and in putting forth his own. It adds a richness to the Buddha's teachings, which did not appear in a vacuum.

As Gombrich states: "I have the greatest difficulty in accepting that the main edifice [of the Pali Texts] is not the
work of one genius."
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Ben
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by Ben »

Yes, I was so singularly impressed with How Buddhism Began that I read it again, cover to cover after finishing it the first time.
I would love to get my hands on 'What the Buddha Thought', but I think it might have to wait until aftr my trip to Myanmar as I'm going into serious money-saving mode.
I guess I could always sell the kids...
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Reductor
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by Reductor »

Ben wrote:Yes, I was so singularly impressed with How Buddhism Began that I read it again, cover to cover after finishing it the first time.
I would love to get my hands on 'What the Buddha Thought', but I think it might have to wait until aftr my trip to Myanmar as I'm going into serious money-saving mode.
I guess I could always sell the kids...
Actually, I was thinking of scanning my copy of What the Buddha Thought and loading it up to scribd. I am not sure, however, if that is good and proper. Does anyone know?

EDIT: no, going by the legal documents on scribd it doesn't appear ok. I'll have to read it more closely however, when daylight shines.
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mikenz66
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Ben, What the Buddha Thought costs 15 pounds/26 AUD here: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/97 ... ha-Thought" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheBookDepository is my first stop if I'm trying to buy a book, since they don't have the crippling shipping charges (for those of use not in the US or the UK etc) of *m*z*n and others...

Mike
suanck
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by suanck »

mikenz66 wrote:What the Buddha Thought costs 15 pounds/26 AUD here: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/97 ... ha-Thought" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheBookDepository is my first stop if I'm trying to buy a book, since they don't have the crippling shipping charges (for those of use not in the US or the UK etc) of *m*z*n and others...

Mike
Thanks for the info. I've also placed an order with the above online bookshop for 2 books:

1) What the Buddha Thought, Richard Gombrich
2) Buddhist Teaching in India, Johannes Bronkhorst

Suan.
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Ben
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Re: Richard Gombrich

Post by Ben »

Hi thereductor,
thereductor wrote:Actually, I was thinking of scanning my copy of What the Buddha Thought and loading it up to scribd. I am not sure, however, if that is good and proper. Does anyone know?

EDIT: no, going by the legal documents on scribd it doesn't appear ok. I'll have to read it more closely however, when daylight shines.
As you know, I am a great fan of scribd, but I would be surprised that it would be a breach of copyright and scribd's TOS if you scanned and uploaded the work without the author's permission unless its copyright had expired.
MikeNZ66 wrote:Hi Ben, What the Buddha Thought costs 15 pounds/26 AUD here: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/97" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ha-Thought

TheBookDepository is my first stop if I'm trying to buy a book, since they don't have the crippling shipping charges (for those of use not in the US or the UK etc) of *m*z*n and others...
I remember you mentioning the book depository a while ago. I just purchased Andrew Olendzki's new book 'Unlimiting Mind' and a couple of Kabat-Zinn's CDs on mindfulness - all for my wife. And you guessed it, I purchased them from amazon! In future, I'll check out the book depository first.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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