.
I was very disappointed to see that one has to be a member of Facebook in order to download the scribd copy of 'How Buddhism Began.."
Parts of it are also available to read at Google books.
http://books.google.com/books?id=aIOY5g ... &q&f=false
This lecture of Richard Gombrich's might be of interest to anyone who hasn't already read it :
"Kindness and Compassion as means to Nirvana in Early Buddhism "
http://www.ocbs.org/content/blogcategory/29/121/
metta,
Aloka
Richard Gombrich
Re: Richard Gombrich
Hi Aloka
I don;t think you need to be a member of facebook rather, one can log-in to scribd using their facebook id. In the sameway one can log-in to flickr using their yahoo id. I'm pretty sure that's how it works.
kind regards
Ben
I don;t think you need to be a member of facebook rather, one can log-in to scribd using their facebook id. In the sameway one can log-in to flickr using their yahoo id. I'm pretty sure that's how it works.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Richard Gombrich
I just read the chapter on that in his book "What the Buddha Thought" which I'm really enjoying.Aloka wrote:.
This lecture of Richard Gombrich's might be of interest to anyone who hasn't already read it :
"Kindness and Compassion as means to Nirvana in Early Buddhism "
http://www.ocbs.org/content/blogcategory/29/121/
Aloka
Is this idea generally accpeted in orthodox Theravada? I can't imagine it would be.
Even if my body should be burnt to death
In the fires of hell,
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice
- Gandavyuha Sutra
In the fires of hell,
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice
- Gandavyuha Sutra
Re: Richard Gombrich
I am about a quarter of the way through How Buddhism Began, and am enjoying. A couple of standpoints I don't agree with (and probably many fellow Buddhists wouldn't also) but the man is intelligent, thoroughly read and knowledgeable, and presents his arguments coherently - whether one agrees or not.
(I like his observation on the Buddha having a sense of humor).
Thanks Thereductor, Ben and all for pointing me to this book. And Ven P, after reading just a quarter of this book I think your advice makes even more sense.
Mike, I still haven't managed yet to find an electronic version on Scribd of What the Buddha Thought (obviously thereductor you are still doubtful whether that is the right thing to do, I am too new to Scribd to even understand how it works!) nor any other electronic downloadable version. Physical delivery to Indonesia can be problematic!
Again, thank you all!
(I like his observation on the Buddha having a sense of humor).
Thanks Thereductor, Ben and all for pointing me to this book. And Ven P, after reading just a quarter of this book I think your advice makes even more sense.
Mike, I still haven't managed yet to find an electronic version on Scribd of What the Buddha Thought (obviously thereductor you are still doubtful whether that is the right thing to do, I am too new to Scribd to even understand how it works!) nor any other electronic downloadable version. Physical delivery to Indonesia can be problematic!
Again, thank you all!
Re: Richard Gombrich
Hi Suan & all,suanck wrote:Buddhist Teaching in India, Johannes Bronkhorst
For anyone who is interested there are a number of Bronkhorst's papers and such available on the Université de Lausanne Unisciences site.
All the best,
Geoff
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- Posts: 1952
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Richard Gombrich
Hi Tilt,
with metta
RYB
Unless someone has gone the whole hog with vipassana (all 16 nanas) there is no way to know what a genius he is. It's not possible to know how deep this dhamma is. It is not possible to know how hard the sangha has practised. There is no true saddha until then.tiltbillings wrote: As Gombrich states: "I have the greatest difficulty in accepting that the main edifice [of the Pali Texts] is not the
work of one genius."
with metta
RYB
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Re: Richard Gombrich
You're being kind of narrow, RYB.rowyourboat wrote:Hi Tilt,
Unless someone has gone the whole hog with vipassana (all 16 nanas) there is no way to know what a genius he is. It's not possible to know how deep this dhamma is. It is not possible to know how hard the sangha has practised. There is no true saddha until then.tiltbillings wrote: As Gombrich states: "I have the greatest difficulty in accepting that the main edifice [of the Pali Texts] is not the
work of one genius."
with metta
RYB
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- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Richard Gombrich
Well 'aveccapasadha' unshakeable faith arises at that point, according to the dhamma ie at the point of becoming a stream entrant (ie 16 vipassaan knowledges); because they have seen the path through their own experience and it it unlike anything a mind has experienced for the whole of samsara. To figure out this path takes a genius. Yes, morality and concentration was already around. But this vipassana is something beyond what a normal human mind can figure out.. and to teach it to people in way that some might grasp it is even more genius. Imagine one fish teaching another fish how to walk on land, or a bird to fly in space. It is of that magnitude.thereductor wrote:You're being kind of narrow, RYB.rowyourboat wrote:Hi Tilt,
Unless someone has gone the whole hog with vipassana (all 16 nanas) there is no way to know what a genius he is. It's not possible to know how deep this dhamma is. It is not possible to know how hard the sangha has practised. There is no true saddha until then.tiltbillings wrote: As Gombrich states: "I have the greatest difficulty in accepting that the main edifice [of the Pali Texts] is not the
work of one genius."
with metta
RYB
with metta
RYB
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Richard Gombrich
And you know this from direct experience?rowyourboat wrote:
Unless someone has gone the whole hog with vipassana (all 16 nanas) there is no way to know what a genius he is.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Richard Gombrich
Not quite what I meant, as I'm not one to argue against unshakable faith. I mean that there's more than one way to approach the Buddha's genius other than the practice path of ourselves; and subsequently I feel that Gombrich's view is no less valid by virtue of its perspective.rowyourboat wrote: Well 'aveccapasadha' unshakeable faith arises at that point, according to the dhamma ie at the point of becoming a stream entrant ...
I would also caution the absolutist reference to the 16 nana and their necessity for 'true' saddha, as not all of us are either aware of what they entail or necessarily subscribe to their being typical of progress. Doing so seems, perhaps, a narrow view.
As for your above assessment to the magnitude of the Buddha's teaching, from the pov of a practitioner, I do concur. I cannot fathom a more wondrous and important teaching than his.
Re: Richard Gombrich
You're missing the point, RYB.
Gombrich simply asserts that the Pali Canon reflects the teachings of one man, who was a genius. He's countering those who might argue that it is a collection of many views, or the nefarious idea that we can't really tell if there ever was such a person.
This has nothing to do with achievements or levels of understanding.
Gombrich simply asserts that the Pali Canon reflects the teachings of one man, who was a genius. He's countering those who might argue that it is a collection of many views, or the nefarious idea that we can't really tell if there ever was such a person.
This has nothing to do with achievements or levels of understanding.
Re: Richard Gombrich
We don't need to have attained '16 nanas' to know that Aristotle and Da Vinci were geniuses. Why would Buddha be different?
Re: Richard Gombrich
Quite so, Shonin!Shonin wrote:We don't need to have attained '16 nanas' to know that Aristotle and Da Vinci were geniuses. Why would Buddha be different?
Nor do we need to have attained the 16 naanas to know the Buddha was a genius. Gombrich was able to come to the conclusion through his scholastic endeavours and we can do so through the development of experiential wisdom, even as mere putthujanas on the path.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
-
- Posts: 1952
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Richard Gombrich
looks like I've raised a bit of a hornet's nest! I hope I have succeeded a little bit at least in those of you who might be resting on your current dhamma laurels. I ask you what you must do to fit the description of the arya sangha- to be worthy of veneration ('anjalikaraneyyo'), to be worthy of gifts brought from afar ('aahuneyyo'), to be worthy of gifts given in seeking merit ('pahuneyyo'). What kind of practice would such a person have? - a bit of internet surfing perhaps?
Well, I'm going to leave it to you folks to think about Prof Gombrich. It is my belief that anyone who claims to know the dhamma and is a professor of the matter, should consider himself a buddhist; else he hasn't understood much. He may well be useful in clarifying history and other such matters, but perhaps not about the dhamma itself.
with metta
RYB
Well, I'm going to leave it to you folks to think about Prof Gombrich. It is my belief that anyone who claims to know the dhamma and is a professor of the matter, should consider himself a buddhist; else he hasn't understood much. He may well be useful in clarifying history and other such matters, but perhaps not about the dhamma itself.
with metta
RYB
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Richard Gombrich
Are you going to back up your claim: "Unless someone has gone the whole hog with vipassana (all 16 nanas) there is no way to know what a genius he is ?" Is this something you know from direct experience? If you have not directly experienced all the 16 ñānas, then you really do not know.rowyourboat wrote: looks like I've raised a bit of a hornet's nest! I hope I have succeeded a little bit at least in those of you who might be resting on your current dhamma laurels. I ask you what you must do to fit the description of the arya sangha- to be worthy of veneration ('anjalikaraneyyo'), to be worthy of gifts brought from afar ('aahuneyyo'), to be worthy of gifts given in seeking merit ('pahuneyyo'). What kind of practice would such a person have? - a bit of internet surfing perhaps?
Well, I'm going to leave it to you folks to think about Prof Gombrich. It is my belief that anyone who claims to know the dhamma and is a professor of the matter, should consider himself a buddhist; else he hasn't understood much. He may well be useful in clarifying history and other such matters, but perhaps not about the dhamma itself.
with metta
RYB
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723