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The Danger of Rebirth - Page 23 - Dhamma Wheel

The Danger of Rebirth

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:21 am


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tiltbillings
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"The Danger of Rebirth" thread has jumped the shark

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:09 am

is an expression when a TV series has lost its way, going off into the realm of the silly and should be cancelled.

This thread, which has become remarkably repetitive, jumped the shark when it was suggested that the notion of the gandhabba in MN I 256-6 refers to sperm as a way of deflecting the significance of its usage. A gandhabba in the Buddhist and Brahmanical mythic structure refers to a low level celestial spirit. That the Buddha chose to use this word in the context of MN I 256-6 suggests that likely gandhabba had something of a wider meaning not found in any extant literature. In the very least, taking only what we have, in a sutta that deals at length with paticcasamuppada, the use of gandhabba suggests a way of talking about the causal conditions, beyond the merely physical, necessary for rebirth.

The gandhabba is sperm? Oh, gawd, it is time to move on. Considerable effort has been expended here to carefully, logically, and repeatedly explain the traditional Theravadin point of view, which has been repeatedly brushed aside for a highly idiosyncratic belief that, among other things, holds that rebirth must always entail a unchanging self agent notion, for which no amount of evidence otherwise makes a difference.

On E-Sangha I stayed far, far away from anti-rebirth threads for just this reason. Some lessons one learns the hard way.

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robertk
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby robertk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:33 am


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cooran
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby cooran » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:40 am

Hello Rob,

At the monastery I attend on Sundays, Bhante Dhammasiha advised me to read some of Thanissaro Bhikkhu's articles on Not-Self .... would you be so kind enough as to point out how Ven. Thanissaro is an eternalis?

metta and respect
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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tiltbillings
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:43 am


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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:33 am



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clw_uk
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby clw_uk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:42 am

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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kc2dpt
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:14 pm

I don't see what the objection is to paticcasamuppada covering three lives. Whether it covers three lives or one the process of ending suffering is still the same: eradicate ignorance so that feeling doesn't give rise to craving. Nothing about the three lives model or the one life model changes this.

That some people who believe in rebirth have eternalist leanings doesn't really matter. All unawakened people have either eternalist views or nihilist views. The fact is the Buddha taught rebirth AND the end of rebirth. Ultimately, nihilist views are wrong because there IS rebirth for the unawakened and eternalist views are wrong because there IS the end of rebirth for the awakened.
- Peter


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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:17 pm


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David N. Snyder
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:21 pm

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clw_uk
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby clw_uk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:53 pm

Last edited by clw_uk on Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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clw_uk
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby clw_uk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:56 pm

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kc2dpt
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:15 pm

- Peter


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clw_uk
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby clw_uk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:27 pm

Last edited by clw_uk on Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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clw_uk
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby clw_uk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:35 pm

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Heavenstorm
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby Heavenstorm » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:07 pm


Heavenstorm
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby Heavenstorm » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:58 pm


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kc2dpt
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:04 pm

- Peter


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clw_uk
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby clw_uk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:04 pm

Im glad your not :smile: wasnt trying to offend it just seemed that way, thats one of the problems of internet chat, sometimes hard to see ones meaning or context


:namaste:
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kc2dpt
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Re: The Danger of Rebirth

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:11 pm

To illustrate my point...

Once I came across a teaching about rain gods. I was totally baffled as to what this teaching had to do with the suffering and the ending of suffering. But instead of saying "This obviously can't be a teaching of the Buddha; it must have been added later" or saying "The Buddha taught this but only to stupid people" I asked a knowledgeable teacher "I do not see how this teaching fits in with the rest of the teachings; can you explain it to me?" And guess what? He explained it to me and now I understand. And I did it without slandering the Buddha (calling him a liar or a trickster), the Dhamma (by saying some bits were worthless) or the Sangha (by saying unscrupulous monks changed the teachings). I did it without causing anyone to doubt or lose faith. I did it without causing arguments or insults or divisions.

I think questions are wonderful, but I think there are better and worse ways to ask questions.
- Peter



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