Online Pali Canon?

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
User avatar
AlaskanDhamma
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:28 pm
Location: Alaska, USA

Online Pali Canon?

Post by AlaskanDhamma »

Ok so I know the idea of an online Pali Canon would take forever, but I'm just curious about it.

What is the closest thing to having an online readable Pali Canon? Is there anything that even closely compares?

Thanks for you time.
"Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace." -Buddha
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22390
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by Ceisiwr »

http://www.accesstoinsight.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
piotr
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Khettadesa

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by piotr »

Hi,

Here are many suttas that are not available on ATI (especially from Dīgha- and Majjhima-nikāya):

http://tipitaka.wikia.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by tiltbillings »

http://metta.lk/tipitaka/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These translations are rough, but generally serviceable.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19941
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by mikenz66 »

The major sources appear to me to be:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://mettanet.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Translations from the latter appear in other places as well. It is more comprehensive than Access to Insight, but the translations seem to be quite rough, as Tilt says.

The translations on Access to Insight tend to be quite selective. The majority are by Ajahn Thanissaro, whose translations seem OK, though I personally prefer the more conventional translations of the Pali terms, but that's just me...

Though it is nice to have this stuff on line, if I want to do some serious study I prefer the translations available from, in particular, Wisdom. http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/c_teachings.lasso" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta
Mike
User avatar
AlaskanDhamma
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:28 pm
Location: Alaska, USA

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by AlaskanDhamma »

Oh, thank you very much everyone! I wasn't aware of some of these sites. I will do some due research now, thanks! :namaste:
"Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace." -Buddha
User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 4646
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

AlaskanDhamma wrote:Ok so I know the idea of an online Pali Canon would take forever, but I'm just curious about it.
It is already available — the Pali text, the Commentaries and the Subcommentaries, and in many different scripts.

Tipitaka.org
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by tiltbillings »

Bhante,
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
AlaskanDhamma wrote:Ok so I know the idea of an online Pali Canon would take forever, but I'm just curious about it.
It is already available — the Pali text, the Commentaries and the Subcommentaries, and in many different scripts.

Tipitaka.org
That is a great site, but I kind of think that he might mean in translation, which is how I took it, since reading Pali, though not as rare as turtle fangs, is not common.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 4646
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Well, his avatar is apparently reading the Pali texts :reading:

BTW. I added a few chapters to the Wikpitaka. It was surprisingly easy to join and start contributing. Let me know if I made any errors.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
User avatar
Kare
Posts: 767
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by Kare »

tiltbillings wrote:Bhante,
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
AlaskanDhamma wrote:Ok so I know the idea of an online Pali Canon would take forever, but I'm just curious about it.
It is already available — the Pali text, the Commentaries and the Subcommentaries, and in many different scripts.

Tipitaka.org
That is a great site, but I kind of think that he might mean in translation, which is how I took it, since reading Pali, though not as rare as turtle fangs, is not common.
Translations are useful, but translations can never be trusted 100%. In Italian there is a saying, traduttore, traditore! ("translator, you're a traitor!"). I have translated lots of Pali texts, so I speak from my own experience here. :lol:

Therefore, some study of Pali is very useful, and time well spent for anyone who is interested in the Buddha's Dhamma. Even a modest level of Pali knowledge will be of great help for understanding the Dhamma, and for understanding that some details in the interpretation of the Dhamma are open to discussion.

But don't take my word for it (I'm a translator, and not to be trusted! :lol: ) Learn some Pali, and see it for yourself! :reading:
Mettāya,
Kåre
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by tiltbillings »

Kare and everyone else,
Translations are useful, but translations can never be trusted 100%.
Here is a line from a verse passage:

satto sa.msaaramaapaadi, kamma.m tassa paraayanan ti - SN i 38

The late and former (obviously) president of the Pali Text Society, I.B. Horner, translates this as:

"This being is bound to samsara, karma is his means for going beyond." BUDDHIST TEXTS THROUGH THE AGES, page 80, selection 67.

Ven Bodhi's translation:

A being enters upon samsara; Kamma determines his destiny. CDB I 129.

Without seeing Horner's first, Ven Bodhi's translation is a little weak, missing something of the significance of paraayana, which can easily signify awakening as a goal - destiny vs going beyond. Also, "is his means" vs "determines." I think, as well as I can understand the grammatical structure if this verse and verse is harder to understand, Horner's is by far the better translation.


As for getting acquainted with Pali without actually committing oneself to a several year project of learning the language, the PALI WORKBOOK is a good choice.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
pt1
Posts: 417
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:30 am

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by pt1 »

Currently, openlibrary.org seems to be the only place online that also has a few books from the abhidhamma basket in English (dhammasangani, vibhanga and part of patthana). Even though these are only scans and the translations are quite old (1900-1906), it’s really great finally having access to source abhidhamma texts.

Best wishes
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings piotr,
piotr wrote:Hi,

Here are many suttas that are not available on ATI (especially from Dīgha- and Majjhima-nikāya):

http://tipitaka.wikia.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nice find. I've just added it to...

Google Saffron
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=00545 ... cbjbznmwso" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...which of course is another place people can find suttas since it now references most of the sites mentioned thus far.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by nathan »

My dream Tipitika would be something like what has been done with the Old and New Testaments. This is a huge project and the TIpitaka is much larger but over time...

As I see it this would involve creating a similar system to that used for biblical concordances, dictionaries and interlinear texts. A wiki environment would be the ideal place for co-operative scholarship and now we have a wiki to begin to work with. Are there copyright or other issues that prevent including all the other work that has already been done into this wiki? The pali text is already data in various scripts. The development of a number reference for each term would be something I would think would require some expertise and perhaps some kind of formal agreements to execute, I'm not sure. Then factor in the existing dictionary info and so forth, the existing translation work, fill in the blanks that are left and we are on our way to something really accessible and navigable.

I have already been wondering why so much of this work is partly here and partly there and why all those who are investing energy in this work don't simply combine all of these efforts into one centralized meta-work. I suppose if economic or legal factors are involved it is one thing but if this is largely an academic enterprise or a labor of love then I don't know why most of those who are already busy about this kind of work haven't already got this kind of a cooperative effort underway. There is the PTS but the end product of that work fills a room with hard copy texts. Somewhere along the line all these texts are data of some kind and available somewhere. How could we encourage the online compilation of all of it?

With a wiki of the Tipitaka that is well constructed, the commentaries, old and new, and whatever other useful information can also be collected and linked in and this becomes more accessible as well. It seems like something amazing is possible and at the same time small but real and highly beneficial steps are also possible. Is there anything we can do to encourage such developments short of becoming pali scholars or academic experts of one kind or another ourselves? 'Cause, I'm warning ya, I'll do it if I have to! On the other hand I can cut and paste or type in the existing translations and so on if it is legal or permissible to do so.

The situation as it stands is actually awful, we have a huge amount of excellent information now (compared to even a decade ago) but we can spend days trying to find some particular detail in that mass of knowledge. (The longer we put off collating and organizing the knowledge the more chaos is created for those who hopefully will.) Strong's concordance alone triggered a massive increase in biblical scholarship by making terms and concepts searchable. My father is a PhD theologian and he told me that once the concordances and interlineal texts went digital it reduced his time searching through texts from hours to minutes. So huge efficiencies are achievable for both scholars and students. The Dhamma has many structures of its own which can be applied to the structure of the data as well. There should be a great many ways that we can approach ordering this knowledge so that every newbie does not have to spend all of their time asking the same questions over and over because there is no straightforward way to access the information. This can free up teachers and practitioners enormously from having to present questions and answers regarding many things again and again (as we can see happens continually in the context of forums), making space for many other kinds of teaching foci such as aspects of technique which really benefit from one on one instruction and guidance and other kinds of study and discussion which can contribute to enhanced and deepened understandings for all of us.

May the TIpitaka be well and happy. :smile:
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19941
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Online Pali Canon?

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Nathan,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am amazed almost every day how I can do searches for articles in a few seconds that took me hours in the library back in the 70s and 80s.

What I find frustrating is that printed material of the Tipitika is not searchable. I have the translations large parts of the Nikayas on my bookshelf (I'm waiting impatiently for Bhikkhu Bodhi's complete Anguttara Nikaya...). I prefer those to the on-line versions because they are comprehensive, have good footnotes, and are good, consistent, translations.

However, if I want to locate a particular passage ("In which Sutta did the Buddha mention XXX?") I often wind up using Google to search on-line, then I can easily locate it in the printed volume. The indexes and concordances in the books simply don't compare to electronic search...

Metta
Mike
Post Reply