In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.

In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby Stephen K » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:04 pm

The Buddha said once, "I do not argue with the world. It is the world which argues with me." (found the quote here)

In which sutta is this mentioned?
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby Kare » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:15 pm

Stefan wrote:The Buddha said once, "I do not argue with the world. It is the world which argues with me." (found the quote here)

In which sutta is this mentioned?


Pupphasutta, Samyutta Nikaya 3, 1, 10, 2 (PTS 3, 138)
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby Stephen K » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:51 pm

Thank you very much!
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:12 pm

The Buddha must have anticipate the Internet. :lol:
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby Aloka » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:09 am

Pupphasutta, Samyutta Nikaya 3, 1, 10, 2 (PTS 3, 138)


How do I find these references at Access to Insight, please ? I started looking in SN 3 ....but there's no 3, it starts with 3.1 and so on. Nor could I find 'Pupphasutta'.


metta,

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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby Stephen K » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:35 am

Aloka wrote:
Pupphasutta, Samyutta Nikaya 3, 1, 10, 2 (PTS 3, 138)


How do I find these references at Access to Insight, please ? I started looking in SN 3 ....but there's no 3, it starts with 3.1 and so on. Nor could I find 'Pupphasutta'.


metta,

Aloka


Try this.

Puppha Sutta is SN 22.94
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby Aloka » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:41 am

Thanks very much, Stephan :)



.
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby dragonwarrior » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:44 am

Stefan wrote:
Try this.

Puppha Sutta is SN 22.94


still can't find it.. help me?
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:26 am

Hi Winny,

Here is an extract. (This is the start of the Sutta.)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el186.html
"Bhikkhus, I do not dispute with the world [the 'world' in the sense of other people], the world disputes with me: no one who proclaims the True Idea [dhamma] disputes with anyone in the world. What wise men in the world say there is not [natthi], that I too say there is not; and what wise men in the world say there is [atthi], that I too say there is... Wise men in the world say there is no permanent, everlasting, eternal materiality not subject to change, and I too say there is none. [And likewise with the other four categories.] Wise men in the world say that there is impermanent materiality that is unpleasant and the subject to change, and I too say there is that."

— SN 22.94/vol. iii, 138-9

Here is the whole thing. Unfortunately the middle part of this translation is almost unintelligible. In Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation it is much clearer: The Buddha is explains what the wise in the world agree on: There is no permanent form, etc; There is impermanent form, etc.; ...
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ggo-e.html
21. 2. 5. 2.

(94) Pupphasutta The Flower

1. I heard thus. At one time the Blessed One lived in the monastery offered by Anatiapindika in Jeta's grove in Sàvatthi.

2. From there the Blessed One addressed the monks.

3. Monks, I do not dispute with the world. The world disputes with me. Monks saying it properly, there is no dispute with the world on account of anything.

4. If it is, there is no righteous wisdom in the world, I too say, it is so. If it is, there is righteous wisdom in the world, I too say, it is so.

5. Monks, how is there no righteous wisdom in the world, which I too say, is so?

6. Monks, there is no righteous wisdom in the world, as matter is permanent, stable, stands forever and does not change. I too say, it is so.

7-9. Monks, there is no righteous wisdom in the world, as feelings, perceptions, intentions are permanent, stable, stands forever and do not change. I too say, it is so.

10. Monks, there is no righteous wisdom in the world, as consciousness is permanent, stable, stands forever and does not change. I too say, it is so.

11. Monks, thus there is no righteous wisdom in the world, which I too say, is so.

12. Monks, how is there righteous wisdom in the world, which I too say, is so?

13. Monks, there is righteous wisdom in the world, as matter is impermanent, unstable, does not stand forever without a change. I too say, it is so.

14-16. Monks, there is righteous wisdom in the world, as feelings, perceptions, intentions are impermanent, unstable, not everlasting, changes. I too say, it is so.

17. Monks, there is righteous wisdom in the world, as consciousness is impermanent, unstable, does not stand forever without change. I too say, it is so.

18. Monks, thus there is righteous wisdom in the world, which I too say, is so.

19. Monks, these are worldly conditions which the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up.

20. Monks, what are the worldly conditions which the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tell, preach, make known, establish, explaining make threadbare and open?

21. Monks, this worldly condition of matter, the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up. When this is done the ordinary, foolish man does not have insight does not know it and see it, so what shall I do about it?

22. Monks, this worldly condition of feelings, the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up. When this is done the ordinary, foolish man does not have insight does not know it and see it, so what shall I do about it?

23. Monks, this worldly condition of perceptions, the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up. When this is done the ordinary, foolish man does not have insight does not know it and see it, so what shall I do about it?

24. Monks, this worldly condition of intentions, the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up. When this is done the ordinary, foolish man does not have insight does not know it and see it, so what shall I do about it?

25. Monks, this worldly condition of consciousness, the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up. When this is done the ordinary, foolish man does not have insight does not know it and see it, so what shall I do about it?

26. Monks, the blue, red, or white lotus, born and nourished in the water, rises beyond the water and stands unsoiled by the water.

27. Monks in the same manner the Thus Gone One nourished in the world stands above it, not soiled by the world.

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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby lojong1 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:02 am

Winny wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Try this.

Puppha Sutta is SN 22.94


still can't find it.. help me?


Access to insight doesn't seem to have it (many others missing too).

It's in SamyuttaNikaya-KhandhaVagga-KhandhaSamyutta#94,

Click Stefan's "this" link to suttacentral.net
Click Samyutta Nikaya.
Click SN 22 Khandha Samyutta
At SN 22.94 Puppha, click the Union Jack on the right of the screen, then scroll down to the second sutta on the page. German flag takes you straight to the German translation.
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby dragonwarrior » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:02 pm

Got it. Thank you so much
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby Kare » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:43 pm

It is a sad fact that the reference systems for Tipitaka - especially for the Anguttara and Samyutta Nikayas - is a chaos. There are several different systems in use, and finding a given text in the Anguttara and Samyutta can be quite difficult at times, especially if the reference given does not match the reference system in the edition you are looking into.

The only really consistent system that I know, is the one that is used in the Bangkok edition of the Tipitaka, where any part of any text can be easily located by reference to volume, page and paragraph. But no one else is using this system.

It would be a very good thing if an international committee could decide on a clear, consistent and universal reference system for the entire Tipitaka - and every publisher of texts and translations then could use that system. But I fear that different editions already are so deep entrenched in the systems they already use, that this is not very likely to happen.
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby Hanzze » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:55 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Postby gavesako » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:39 pm

"There is no point in arguing..." ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbeuDikOfqI


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Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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