A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

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A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby Kare » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:22 am

This edition has been mentioned before, but since I just received the four first Nikayas (Digha, Majjhima, Samyutta og Anguttara), I wish to convey my first impressions. Each Nikaya is published in one volume, the print is clear, the glueing in the back of the paperback volumes seems to be solid and good - although only time will show how it stands up to wear. The pricing is most reasonable. The four volumes together are sold for 99,- USdollar!

The language is Pali. This may scare one or two readers, but it may also serve as an inspiration for learning to read Pali. And the publisher in fact also offers a Pali tutor. So here is a real opportunity for reading the words of the Buddha in the original version. No need to search and wait for "the perfect translation" any longer!

The homepage of the publisher: http://books.nibbanam.com/

The books are also sold by Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Digha-Nikaya-Long ... 820&sr=8-1
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby Sekha » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:37 am

I would be glad do be able to do so, but how fast can one read after having gone though the tutor ?

I imagine it to be quite difficult (I studied latin during my youth and was rather good at it though, but it was often awkward to understand the meaning without deepened grammatical analysis) am I wrong?
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby Kare » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:17 pm

Dukkhanirodha wrote:I would be glad do be able to do so, but how fast can one read after having gone though the tutor ?

I imagine it to be quite difficult (I studied latin during my youth and was rather good at it though, but it was often awkward to understand the meaning without deepened grammatical analysis) am I wrong?


I have not seen the tutor I mentioned above, so I can't say. But the Warder tutor uses long passages from the Digha Nikaya, so after having gone through that one, you will be familiar not only with the Digha, but with most of the Nikaya style. If you already know some latin, pali will not look too unfamiliar, since both languages have a fundamentally similar grammar (cases etc.), like all ancient indoeuropean languages - although the details are different.
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:08 pm

Kare wrote: And the publisher in fact also offers a Pali tutor. So here is a real opportunity for reading the words of the Buddha in the original version. No need to search and wait for "the perfect translation" any longer!


:thumbsup:

Excellent!

I mean, Sadhu!
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby yuttadhammo » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:52 am

One plug deserves another. You could also try the Digital Pali Reader:

http://pali.sirimangalo.org/
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:46 pm

Kare wrote:I have not seen the tutor I mentioned above, so I can't say.


I checked out the book (Pāli - Buddha's Language, by Kurt Schmidt). I skimmed through the whole book, and worked on one chapter so far.

I wish I could recommend it, because it seems like a beginner will learn how to read very fast with it. The pace is really accelerated compared to AK Warder's book. It's also simplified so you don't have to learn all the unnecessary details. Once you finish this one, I think the AK Warder's book will be much easier to read and complete, if you still want to read it.

This book makes you memorize a verse at the beginning of every chapter... so you end up having the words stuck in your mind while you learn their structures. I think this is very good.

But... it has the most careless editing I've ever seen. :? It calls the prefix a suffix (i.e., a- ), though it does that consistently. There are way too many typos (it's ridiculous). Even the Pāli words (at least one that I caught so far) seem to have typos. Here's an example:

Na hi verena verāni
sammant' idha kudācanaṃ
averena ca sammanti
esa dhammo sananto. (should be spelled sanantano)

Daṇḍen'eke [sic?] damayanti (it seems like there should be a space before "eke")
aṅkusehi kasāhi ca
adaṇḍena asatthena
nāgo danto mahesinā.


A beginner might be confused with typos like these, if he wasn't sharp enough. Which I think is too bad...

Here's another weird example (from the appendix on grammar cases):

Here's the same sentence in Pāli with table (mensa) in the ablative:

Ācariyo potthakaṃ bhittiphalake thāpeti.


I don't know what mensa is. :tongue: (Probably Latin.) The author admits in a footnote that he took someone else's (Prof. Dowling) introduction to grammar and converted it for Pāli. Maybe he didn't convert it well enough.

This appendix is actually my least favorite part of the book. I didn't like the tone in it... it seemed a bit patronizing, or dumbed down (Prof. Dowling, I assume), while the rest of the book is fine.

I hope the publisher fixes the typos and reprints it, because I think it's worth it. If you can deal with typos, don't let this keep you. Go ahead and get the book.
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby yuttadhammo » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:16 pm

Daṇḍen'eke [sic?] damayanti (it seems like there should be a space before "eke")

This is a common elision of the short "a", which would result in a single pada:
daṇḍeneke

but modern roman texts like to add the apostrophe to make it clear where the elision occurred. In Devanagari, it would be:

दण्डेनेके
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby Ben » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:29 pm

Thank you Kare and Venerable Yuttadhammo for those recommendations.
Commencing to learn Pali is high on my list of priorities.
kind regrds

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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby lojong1 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:16 am

Dukkhanirodha wrote:I imagine it to be quite difficult (I studied latin during my youth and was rather good at it though, but it was often awkward to understand the meaning without deepened grammatical analysis) am I wrong?


I've only sloshed through a few beginner paali grammars, but I'd say it wouldn't be too hard to learn to read it for these reasons: Learning with a subject of interest speeds things up; Buddha-Dhamma has lots of repetitions; You won't mind reading the repetitions repetitiously; and most of the material can be found in your native language if you run into problems.


The site is a bit unclear about the books being in Paali language and no ISBN came up--are these the ones?
http://books.nibbanam.com/pali-study-editions.htm
A complete edition of the 4 main sections of the Sutta Pitaka, the discourses of the Buddha in one collection.
4 volumes. 2800 pages. Free shipment in the US!$99
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby beeblebrox » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:28 pm

yuttadhammo wrote:
Daṇḍen'eke [sic?] damayanti (it seems like there should be a space before "eke")

This is a common elision of the short "a", which would result in a single pada:
daṇḍeneke

but modern roman texts like to add the apostrophe to make it clear where the elision occurred. In Devanagari, it would be:

दण्डेनेके


The book mentioned that somewhat (the elision), and the pattern seems to be that it includes a space. Your details are much more clearer. Thanks, Bhante. I really appreciate it.

lojong1 wrote:The site is a bit unclear about the books being in Paali language and no ISBN came up--are these the ones?
http://books.nibbanam.com/pali-study-editions.htm
A complete edition of the 4 main sections of the Sutta Pitaka, the discourses of the Buddha in one collection.
4 volumes. 2800 pages. Free shipment in the US!$99


That's what I ordered last week. It should be here any time. I decided to grab the opportunity before it disappears... because the PTS books are really expensive.

I'm concerned about the typos, though. Hope these books don't have too many of them. :tongue: Anyway, I think it's good supporting anyone who makes these available.
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby beeblebrox » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:24 pm

I received my order today. I'm more than happy with the set. The types are tiny, but still readable. There seems to be a minor inconsistency with the size of the dotted letters (this is barely noticeable). All in all, $99 is a very good deal these books.

They also threw in two books. The Pali Lessons mentioned above (they said that it's more popular than expected, and they have a second edition coming out)... and an edition of the Ven. Ñāṇananda's book, Mind Stilled, complete with the 25 Nibbana Sermons. :jawdrop: It's over 700 pages long. This made me really happy.

Seems like they made it available recently. The guy that I spoke with says that it's a print-on-demand book, and that it's a non-profit thing for them. You can find it on amazon.com, but at amazon's price level.

There are some editing inconsistency in this book, though. They're not too bad, just some words that are broken up, and a space for every line of a verse, stuff like that. I've offered my help in cleaning it up, and already received a Word document to check out. :) This is a publisher worth supporting.
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby lojong1 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:18 am

I have a set now, printed August 2010, $20 shipping to Canada. Nice of them to throw in Schmidt's Pali (same printing date) as a freebie. It is good to have a hard copy to work with, but I recommend they take it off store shelves until it's finished! If that grammar had been my first and only purchase, it would have been my last from there. Some of the errors are easy to spot and don't hinder understanding, while some take some time and other reference materials to sort out.

The 4 Sutta books themselves seem to be more carefully finished, judging from the few passages I've read. No problems yet, looking forward to working with them.
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby alan » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:49 am

Thanissaro's interpretation is free. Why not just read that?
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby Reductor » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:26 am

alan wrote:Thanissaro's interpretation is free. Why not just read that?


I think that's the reason right there.

My dad has an E-reader from sony. I used cutepdf (google it) and converted some of the SLTP files to pdf and loaded them on the E-reader. Seems to work like a charm (alas, he won't give it to me!)
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To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby alan » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:34 am

Thanissaro took me 2 years to read. I admire the dedication of anyone willing to learn Pali!
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby Ytrog » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:13 pm

I sure want to learn Pali, but I find learning new languages very difficult. I never did really have any real success with German or French at school :(
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.


mindfulness, bliss and beyond (page 8) wrote:Do not linger on the past. Do not keep carrying around coffins full of dead moments


If you see any unskillful speech (or other action) from me let me know, so I can learn from it.
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby Kare » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:01 pm

Ytrog wrote:I sure want to learn Pali, but I find learning new languages very difficult. I never did really have any real success with German or French at school :(


In some respects learning a "dead" language is easier, because you have all the time you might wish for to check dictionaries and grammars. There is no hurry at all.
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Re: A practical and inexpensive edition of the Pali texts!

Postby Ytrog » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:06 am

Well, that's true :bow:
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.


mindfulness, bliss and beyond (page 8) wrote:Do not linger on the past. Do not keep carrying around coffins full of dead moments


If you see any unskillful speech (or other action) from me let me know, so I can learn from it.
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