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Why Ordain Unenlightened People? - Dhamma Wheel

Why Ordain Unenlightened People?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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yuttadhammo
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Why Ordain Unenlightened People?

Postby yuttadhammo » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:59 am





Upasampadā: 4 December, 2001

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Ytrog
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Re: Why Ordain Unenlightened People?

Postby Ytrog » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:04 am

Thanks for sharing this Bhante :anjali:

So, in brief it is that there isn't much use for ordaining if you're already enlightened similar to the fact that it's no use to bathe if you're already clean (to use the metaphor from the text). How does the first year as a samanera before ordaining as a monk fit in this? Was this common practice in the days of the Buddha too?

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yuttadhammo
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Re: Why Ordain Unenlightened People?

Postby yuttadhammo » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:20 pm





Upasampadā: 4 December, 2001

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Why Ordain Unenlightened People?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:10 am

And if I'm not mistaken the novice period was only for those under the age of 20. And even that rule developed over time. The Ven. Sopaka attained enlightenment at the age of 7 and was given the full / higher ordination even though he was under 20. (Khuddaka Nikaya, Theragatha 486)
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Re: Why Ordain Unenlightened People?

Postby fabianfred » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:01 am

It is only extreme places such as WPN and satellites which require the aspirant to ordain as a Pahkow for six months followed by Novice for a year before allowing full ordination.
Certainly if I attained to Sotapanna I would consider disrobing. One would then be safe from creating any karma which would cause reirth in the lower realms, and nowadays people are more inclined to learn the dhamma from lay followers than monks.
Being a good monk and living by the vinaya is difficult when surrounded by less enthusiastic ones....one tends to get ostracised by them.
If you are only interested in going off to quiet places and getting on with yor own practice then there isn't a problem, but if you want to share the good news with others and teach, then as a monk you cannot let anyone know if you have attained to any degree, and surely people want to learn from those who have already succeeded??

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Re: Why Ordain Unenlightened People?

Postby Ytrog » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:43 am


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Re: Why Ordain Unenlightened People?

Postby yuttadhammo » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:48 am





Upasampadā: 4 December, 2001

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Re: Why Ordain Unenlightened People?

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:15 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: Why Ordain Unenlightened People?

Postby Sobeh » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:10 am



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