Aspiration for Jhana ?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
fijiNut
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Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by fijiNut »

Thank everybody here on DhammaWheel for their collective wisdom once again.

In regards to the topic of aspiration for (at least 1st) Jhana, the first thing that comes to mind is to plant the right seeds and sow the conditions for deeper samadhi to occur, whether it will it occur and when it will occur will be not a matter of 'forced will or grasping' but a gradual unfolding quality of a quiet mind.

What have been the lifestyle changes and practical things that you have done to make that possible?
Practical tips would be much appreciated (especially with breath meditation).

eg (3 months silent retreat + 2 hours maintenance everyday) or
(complete celibacy + 2 hours practice everyday for 1 complete year) or
(good awareness/mindfulness of breath all day + 2 hours regular practice) etc.

What might work for somebody, might not work for others, but I guess they are good indication of the resolve and consistency one might need to put in practice.
Dhamma practice is a long term project after all.

kindest regards,
fijiNut
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Ben
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by Ben »

Hi FijiNut

Do you have a copy of Vism? If so, it might be a good place to start as well as the suttas.
Check out the section on anapana sati.
Its a section that I go back to over and over and over again. And its probably going to be a constant companion for the rest of my life.
Also, have a read of Ven Analayo's book "Satipatthana: the direct path to realization".

My recommendations are:
Retreat setting, preferably silent.
Maintenance of eight precepts and practice anapana.

And you're comments regarding grasping for attainment. One of the comments SN Goenka makes during the 20-day course is that craving immediately creates a[n insurmountable] barrier to its attainment.
Keep your sila, and maintain awareness on the touch of the breath and have no expectations.
Let go.
All the very best with your (non) aspiration!
metta
Ben
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Reductor
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by Reductor »

Sense restraint for the duration of each day, sutta reflection during the quiet times of day (not intensive intellectualism, just a relaxed reflection). Sense restraint in itself takes a lot of practice, but also sharpens your mind for meditation.

Then just plenty of practice: two hours a day, or about. In this case I don't think it need all be spent on your butt, but rather those two hours can be spent sitting, walking, washing the dishes, sweeping the floor, etc. Anything that is simple to which you can dedicate your attention as completely as you're able too.

I used to meditate at night, hoped up on tea - I'd spend some time meditating, some time cleaning the kitchen, some time walking back and forth, etc.. practice like this until you get where you think you want to be.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by tiltbillings »

fijiNut wrote:
What might work for somebody, might not work for others,
And add to that the differing understandings of what jhana entails. But the basic stuff has been spelled out above. Some here, such as Ian and Ñāṇa, have offered some good advice on the basics, and there are now several very good books written from the jhanika perspective. So, maybe some further study on your part to clarify what it is you are looking for might help, but fundamentally, constancy of practice, keeping it simple and easy are the best things.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

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IanAnd
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by IanAnd »

tiltbillings wrote: Some here, such as Ian and Ñāṇa, have offered some good advice on the basics, and there are now several very good books written from the jhanika perspective.
I would also add that Thanissaro Bhikkhu's e-book Mind Like Fire Unbound might provide you with some additional insightful information. Especially this section of the book subtitled Habits & practices, where he quotes from a discourse one example of entering absorption. If your intuition is working, the description might be of some use to you.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV
rowyourboat
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by rowyourboat »

Two or three one hour sittings (anapanasati) a day. Mindfulness as much as possible at all other times. No major life problems haunting you during meditation. Preferably a quiet lifestyle. Celibabacy not essential. Complete sense restraint not essential (some degree may be helpful). Specific meditations to overcome specific hindrances. Or go on a serious samatha retreat 14 days usually enough from what I have seen (not for everyone obviously).

With metta

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cooran
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by cooran »

Hello fijinut,

Bhante Gunaratana's latest book ''Beyond Mindfulness in Plain English - an introductory guide to Deeper States of Meditation'' may be of assistance to you:
Here is the .pdf version for download:

http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/mindfuln ... nglish.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
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Rui Sousa
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by Rui Sousa »

The six recollections, according to my understanding of the Mahanam Sutta AN 11.13, are one way of developing the first Jhana.
With Metta
fijiNut
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by fijiNut »

Many thanks for the different advice given, all of them very pragmatic. Enough to work on for a couple of months.

I will post again in this thread with queries and updates when necessary.

May all find release from suffering.

metta,
DammaChakku
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by DammaChakku »

fijiNut wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:49 am Thank everybody here on DhammaWheel for their collective wisdom once again.

In regards to the topic of aspiration for (at least 1st) Jhana, the first thing that comes to mind is to plant the right seeds and sow the conditions for deeper samadhi to occur, whether it will it occur and when it will occur will be not a matter of 'forced will or grasping' but a gradual unfolding quality of a quiet mind.

What have been the lifestyle changes and practical things that you have done to make that possible?
Practical tips would be much appreciated (especially with breath meditation).

eg (3 months silent retreat + 2 hours maintenance everyday) or
(complete celibacy + 2 hours practice everyday for 1 complete year) or
(good awareness/mindfulness of breath all day + 2 hours regular practice) etc.

What might work for somebody, might not work for others, but I guess they are good indication of the resolve and consistency one might need to put in practice.
Dhamma practice is a long term project after all.

kindest regards,
fijiNut
You don’t need to practice celibacy in order to reach Jhanas, But you need to be contented or being happy and satisfied with everything you have.
If you still need help I can help.

DammaChakku
With Metta :heart:

DhammaChakkhu
Tihsllub
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by Tihsllub »

DammaChakku wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:46 pm You don’t need to practice celibacy in order to reach Jhanas
Since sensual desire is a hindrance to jhana and absent in jhana, how is jhana reached without celibacy?
DammaChakku
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by DammaChakku »

This concept is mostly misunderstood. If you are prepared to listen to me, please read and understand what I am talking about. I really do know what I am talking about.

Basically, anyone who is below the Anagami ( Non returner status ) cannot stay away from sensual desire. If you suppress too much of it and your body is asking for it, you wouldn’t go too far.
However, if you seclude yourself and you can settle your desire level to a manageable level, it will give you a greater chance to progress in your meditation.

All you need to do is to bring your mind into equilibrium. When it is balanced, your desired level stays fulfilled and calm. Your input will be balanced out with requirements requested from inside. This state will keep your 5 hiderencaes unagitated.

As long as the demand is supplied, hiderances wouldn’t bother you too much. Then it will allow you to settle down in your meditation.

What you should not do is Not to bring in new demands. Therefore, staying away from new stimulations is a must. That is why you should not engage with other activities (parties, entertainments etc.) which arouse your desires further.

According to your argument, no Deva or heavenly beings can achieve anything. Because they fulfill their sensual desires all the time.

With Metta

DammaChakku
With Metta :heart:

DhammaChakkhu
Tihsllub
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by Tihsllub »

DammaChakku wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:27 pm listen to me, please read and understand what I am talking about. I really do know what I am talking about.
No thanks.
DammaChakku wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:27 pmBasically, anyone who is below the Anagami ( Non returner status ) cannot stay away from sensual desire.
The suttas say anyone who is below the Anagami has not fulfilled jhana. Refer to this sutta AN 3.86. Also, your ideas about Anagami & sensual desire are extreme. In SN 12.63, the Anagami is defined as having no pleasure towards food. In AN 6.16, a stream-enterer wife and her husband were celibate for 16 years. Sensual desire can be extremely subtle, particularly towards food. To think a once-returner or stream-enterer is addicted to sensuality, as you are suggesting, sounds very incorrect. In MN 56, for the attainment of stream-entry, the Buddha instructed Upali about the dangers/drawbacks of sensual pleasures. You are instructing the opposite.
DammaChakku wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:27 pmIf you suppress too much of it and your body is asking for it, you wouldn’t go too far.
This does not sound like anything the Buddha taught. It sounds like New Age Ideology.
DammaChakku wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:27 pmAll you need to do is to bring your mind into equilibrium. When it is balanced, your desired level stays fulfilled and calm.
This is not jhana.
DammaChakku wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:27 pmAccording to your argument, no Deva or heavenly beings can achieve anything. Because they fulfill their sensual desires all the time.
There are many different types of deva in the sutta. Those sensual deva are not jhana deva.
DammaChakku
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by DammaChakku »

Amazing …I think there are so many things that have gone terribly wrong with some of the members.

Alright.! You can win your argument. I am not here to win a debate over different ideologies. If you don’t get it you don’t get it. I can't help with that.

If anyone out there has a genuine interest in Jhanas and is willing to set aside your baggage full of pre conceptualized views, and start to think fresh, I am here to help.
Otherwise, please ignore and don’t be bothered too much about what I have said.

Being doubtful is a good quality of a truth seeker. The next step must be careful reasoning and asking the right questions . Then I can clarify further.

However, when someone is carrying a truckload of garbage and prepared to defend it even if he or she doesn’t know the truth, the best thing I could do is run away as fast as I can.

If I don’t get a reasonable question or a logically challenged argument, please don’t expect a reply from myself.

With Metta

DammaChakku
With Metta :heart:

DhammaChakkhu
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robertk
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Re: Aspiration for Jhana ?

Post by robertk »

DammaChakku wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:34 am as fast as I can.

If I don’t get a reasonable question or a logically challenged argument, please don’t expect a reply from myself.

With Metta

DammaChakku
Well one 'argument' is that your ideas about jhana are in conflict with the Theravada.
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