Body v. Mind

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.
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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Body v. Mind

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:11 am

SamKR wrote:Moreover, observation of sensations necessarily includes observation of mind (as sensation is part of mental process). Isn't it?


I guess there is sensation accompanied by a mental "reaction" to it?

Spiny

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Re: Body v. Mind

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:13 am

Viscid wrote:
The nervous think forcefully and clearly. The languid are sluggish, inert, and weak, unclear, discursive, and often mixed-up in thought.


With a description like that, who the heck wants to admit to being languid?



I think I might be languidly nervous... :lol:

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Ben
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Re: Body v. Mind

Postby Ben » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:42 am

Ben wrote:Hi Sam,

SamKR wrote:
I used to practice observation of sensations, and later tried to change to observing mind/mind-objects. But I returned to sensations, as I found observation of sensations was more powerful (in the sense that understanding of anicca and anatta is easier). Furthermore, we need not completely stop observing mind/mind-objects while doing vipassana of vedananupassana (observing sensations). Goenka ji teaches that soon after observing mind and mental content we should switch to observation of sensations associated with the mental state of that moment.


Indeed. For me, especially during retreat, when sati is good and stable and I'm observing sensation the mind begins to also begin to do those other satipatthanas.



in fact, here is something from Ven Analayo on this subject:
Several discourses relate the practice of a single satipatthana directly to realization. Similarly, the commentaries assign to each single satipatthana meditation the capacity to lead to full awakening. This may very well be why a high percentage of present-day meditation teachers focus on the use of a single meditation technique, on the ground that a single-minded and thorough perfection of one meditation technique can cover all aspects of satipatthana, and thus be sufficient to gain realization.
Indeed, the development of awareness with any particular meditation technique will automatically result in a marked increase in one's general level of awareness, therby enhancing one's capacity to be mindful in regard to situations that do not form part of one's primary object of meditation. In this way, even those aspects of satipatthana that have not deliberately been made the object of contemplation to some extent still receive mindful attention as a by-product of the primary practice.
-- Ven Analayo, (2003), Satipatthana: the direct path to realization, Windhorse, Cambridge UK, p22

kind regards

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Body v. Mind

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:35 am

Ben wrote:in fact, here is something from Ven Analayo on this subject:
Several discourses relate the practice of a single satipatthana directly to realization. Similarly, the commentaries assign to each single satipatthana meditation the capacity to lead to full awakening. This may very well be why a high percentage of present-day meditation teachers focus on the use of a single meditation technique, on the ground that a single-minded and thorough perfection of one meditation technique can cover all aspects of satipatthana, and thus be sufficient to gain realization.
Indeed, the development of awareness with any particular meditation technique will automatically result in a marked increase in one's general level of awareness, therby enhancing one's capacity to be mindful in regard to situations that do not form part of one's primary object of meditation. In this way, even those aspects of satipatthana that have not deliberately been made the object of contemplation to some extent still receive mindful attention as a by-product of the primary practice.
-- Ven Analayo, (2003), Satipatthana: the direct path to realization, Windhorse, Cambridge UK, p22

kind regards

Ben


Perhaps it it's also that "global" mindfulness ( of all 4 frames ) is actually very difficult to sustain, so we focus on a primary object to develop samadhi?

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Re: Body v. Mind

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:42 pm

There is a sutta in satipatthana samyutta when Ven Anuruddha mention that a trainee is someone who has not practised all of the four foundations of mindfulness while an arahanth is someone who has completed the four foundaitons of mindfulness. In the same samyutta there is another sutta where it is said that like a pile of sand on the cross roads gets scattered thoroughly by carts coming from all 4 directions (compared to one), doing all 4 foundations of mindfulness is very helpful in the practice. Based on these suttas as well as my own experience, I can say that doing all four foundations of mindfulness is very helpful, rather than limiting yourself to one. But it must be said that it is important to see each satiaptthana to it's natural end- a glimpse of nibbana.

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Re: Body v. Mind

Postby Jack » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:11 am

I used to practice observation of sensations, and later tried to change to observing mind/mind-objects. But I returned to sensations, as I found observation of sensations was more powerful (in the sense that understanding of anicca and anatta is easier). Furthermore, we need not completely stop observing mind/mind-objects while doing vipassana of vedananupassana (observing sensations). Goenka ji teaches that immidiately after observing mind and mental content we should switch to observation of sensations associated with the mental state of that moment.
Moreover, observation of sensations necessarily includes observation of mind (as sensation is part of mental process). Isn't it?[/quote]
=================
When you all mention sensations, are you talking abour body sensations, for instance, pain in a knee, or, vedana, i.e., satisfactory, unsatisfactory or neutral feelings?

Good thread. I have been all over the place. For a long time, my meditation session was maybe 50% on the breath, 10% on the rest of the body and 40% on mental phenomena. At times I would change this to 40% on the breath, 30% on whatever else would enter a sense door and 30% on vedana. In most of these sessions I would spend a moment being mindful of mental condition. Lately I have changed to a rapid fire noting of whatever is going on. My sessions turn out to be 80% body sensations and 20% mental phenomena. There doesn't seem to be time for awareness of vedana. Who knows what will happen in my meditations in the future. These breakdowns of meditation sessions are a guess.

jack

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