Vepacitta wrote:And perhaps, the meditation I've done isn't total 'crap concentration' as I've thought (and which is why I never stuck with it over the years - on again - off again - on again off again).
Vepacitta wrote:Kenshou - read some of the articles that Nana posted...
To be honest, Im not all that concerned with gaining this level of concentration, that level of concentration, this jhana, that jhana. I just sit until my mind is free from wandering.
What I meant by 'Outside of personally sitting in the first jhana? Not a whole lot.' is that all the descriptions of jhana in the suttas are nothing but words on paper, and at present are not a concern to me and my practice.
The only reason I posted was because I was asked by a member to participate in the thread, and I found your post to retro a good jumping in point. From experience, the best way I have found for me is as Buddhadasa recommended, I practice until my mind is calm and then turn to insight. Do I label this calm jhana? No. No need as I see it.
thereductor wrote:My response to Retro doesn't stem from a burning desire for him, or anyone else, to enter into a jhanic state. It stemmed from the "cutting out" of many of the anapanasati steps and the seeming devaluation of the additional samatha that they might yield. But again, Retro can do as he pleases.
Ñāṇa wrote:What the heck is rapture?...
retrofuturist wrote:No dramas - I appreciate any input people put forward.
As alluded to above, the longest consecutive period I tend to find on a regular basis to commit to sitting meditation is in roughly 45 minute blocks (lunch break!)
To that end, I have to think about how to get the most out of those 45 minutes. If I attempted to do each step, one at a time, I would never get to step 13, and therefore not have the opportunity to switch my focus from cultivating samatha to cultivating vipassana, during that sitting session.
retrofuturist wrote:I have to think about how to get the most out of those 45 minutes. If I attempted to do each step, one at a time, I would never get to step 13, and therefore not have the opportunity to switch my focus from cultivating samatha to cultivating vipassana, during that sitting session.
Vepacitta wrote:Personally, I'd like to get into 'how does it work - that you can be concentrated - and yet still think - even though non-discoursive? Is it during the jhana - right after emergence - a bit of both?
What exactly is meant by bodily pleasure - is it the oddball buzzing you get in the head chakras sometimes? Is it truly a lack of pain?
What about what is known as access concentration - how does that relate?
I mean - there's a thousand and one picky (and maybe silly but they need to be cleared up) questions . . .
Ñāna wrote:I think it's possible that some people don't spend more time on the fifth step because they may not think that they've "attained jhāna" or can "experience rapture." But we don't necessarily have to have "attained" anything in order to experience pīti. In this case, the translation of pīti as rapture probably doesn't help. What the heck is rapture?...
But pīti doesn't just mean rapture. It's the mental joy which is present whenever we experience any skillful feeling of pleasure or well-being. And so we don't have to be drenched in bliss in order to practice the fifth step of mindful breathing.
Leigh Brasington wrote:This third factor is called Piti and is variously translated as delight, euphoria, rapture and ecstasy. By shifting your attention from the meditation subject to a pleasant sensation, particularly a pleasant physical sensation, and doing nothing more than not becoming distracted from the pleasant sensation, you will "automatically" enter the First Jhana. The experience is that the pleasant sensation grows in intensity until it explodes into an unmistakable state of ecstasy. This is Piti, which is primarily a physical experience. Physical pleasure this intense is accompanied by emotional pleasure, and this emotional pleasure is Sukha (joy) which is the fourth factor of the First Jhana.
This delight is like the delight or elation that arises in a man who is walking in the desert and is thirsty. He is walking and walking looking for water. Suddenly he comes upon another man who tells him that there is an oasis just up ahead. This initial emotional delight or elation that arises at the thought of his desire being satisfied is called piti. Later on, once he arrives at the oasis and begins to drink the water, the sensation that arises at that point is joy or happiness as his body is satisfied by drinking the water. This joy or happiness or pleasure is called sukha, which is the fourth factor of the first jhana.
IanAnd wrote:Leigh Brasington wrote:This is Piti, which is primarily a physical experience. Physical pleasure this intense is accompanied by emotional pleasure, and this emotional pleasure is Sukha (joy) which is the fourth factor of the First Jhana.
Vepacitta wrote:My personal advice to Retro (puts on Agony Aunt Hat) is to just watch and not get frigged up over steps. Just watch and do the meditation (breath, Buddho, whatever) that'll take you into it. And it'll do it within 45 minutes - then quicker - then quicker - so you can get there and sit in it longer.
It stemmed from the "cutting out" of many of the anapanasati steps and the seeming devaluation of the additional samatha that they might yield.
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