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Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute? - Dhamma Wheel

Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
Luke
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Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby Luke » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:30 am

I read the following interesting lines on wikipedia:
According to one account, the Mahāsāṃghika sect was formed in the first Buddhist schism around 320 BCE. It split from the Sthaviravāda (Elders) school over disputes about the authenticity of certain texts which the Mahāsāṃghikas claimed had been invented by the Elders and were not genuine Word of the Buddha (Buddhavacana). In this account, they did not join the third buddhist council.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mah%C4%81s%C4%81nghika

Does anyone know which texts were the one which the Mahāsāṃghikas objected to?

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retrofuturist
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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:32 am

Greetings Luke,

Very interesting question, since usually the allegations are made in the other direction.

I look forward to seeing whether someone has any useful insight to share on the matter.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby Individual » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:02 am

We could do a process of elimination.

The Sutta Pitaka is within the Mahayana canon with very few differences, so that's not it. And the Vinaya is the same too, right?

This leaves:
-Abhidhamma
-Atthakatha (Theravada commentaries)
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retrofuturist
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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:09 am

Greetings Individual,

Following your process of elimination you could then remove the commentaries, since no one is claiming them to be the literal word of the Buddha.

In addition to the Abhidhamma though, there are some parts of the Khuddaka Nikaya which are arguably "later" than others and don't have parallels across the different canons.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/index.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby plwk » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:42 am


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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:08 am


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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:10 am

That's certainly interesting - thanks Mike.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:21 am

Hi Retro,

Obviously I'm no expert, but from what I've gathered by reading a few books, useful answers about this historical stuff is only going to come from reading the recent literature (i.e. from the 90s onward).

Mike

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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:24 am


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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:10 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:12 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:14 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby Ytrog » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:29 am


Luke
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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby Luke » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:47 am

Last edited by Luke on Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dan74
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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby Dan74 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:54 am

My understanding is that the Mahasamgikas (an extinct school?) should not be automatically equated with Mahayana, which is more of a later development and much less formal most probably. There is some relationship between the two, but they are not the same, right?
_/|\_

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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby plwk » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:54 pm


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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby louhi » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:45 pm

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Last edited by louhi on Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:19 pm


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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby Ytrog » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:53 pm


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Re: Which texts did the Mahāsāṃghikas dispute?

Postby Kenshou » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:57 pm

I think you're right about "sthavira", but "maha" just means "great", more or less, you see that prefix everywhere in Pali or Sanskrit, has nothing to do with Mahayana inherently.


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