Science-Earthquake

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Sanghamitta
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by Sanghamitta »

Which still avoids the central issue Beeblebrox..which is not the mechanics of earthquakes or the earths structure, but rather having arrived at a consensus at the meaning of that science as seen by the ancients..should we arrive at such a consensus which seems unlikely...whether the mechanics, however described, are modified by the arising or disappearance of a Buddha...Which is the actual context of this passage, Its not an abstract pondering on the arising of earthquakes merely.
Last edited by Sanghamitta on Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Sanghamitta
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by Sanghamitta »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Rahula,

The Buddha was explaining this in accord with cosmology as it was understood at the time.

Whether he did know, or could have known otherwise, are rather speculative and ultimately unrewarding questions, that are neither connected with dukkha nor its cessation.

Metta,
Retro. :)
:thumbsup:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
beeblebrox
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by beeblebrox »

Sanghamitta wrote:Which still avoids the central issue Beeblebrox..which is not the mechanics of earthquakes or the earths structure, but rather having arrived at a consensus at the meaning of that science as seen by the ancients..should we arrive at such a consensus which seems unlikely...whether the mechanics, however described, are modified by the arising or disappearance of a Buddha...
Yes, agreed. Their system is different when compared to ours, but it's still cool to see the coincidences when they happen. :tongue:

It could be that what Buddha said is like a horoscope... he's vague enough to be still true in any situation, however you interpret him. Or he said things in a such way, that when things start to make sense via the sammā diṭṭhi, everything in his system will start to fall into their place. I think it's the latter.
rowyourboat
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by rowyourboat »

I think this conversation is going nowhere! If we focus on the fact the Buddha's meanings for the words 'earth' 'air' 'space' etc were used in conjunction to denote their impermanence, we maybe able to get something out of hours of discussion!

with metta
:anjali:
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dharmagoat
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by dharmagoat »

If there really was an understanding in Buddha's time of how earthquakes were caused, why is fire not mentioned? We now know beyond doubt that the interior of the earth is very hot, the understanding being that this gives rise to the convection currents that are ultimately responsible for shifting the tectonic plates around.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Recent non-Theravada posts on the subject of earthquakes have been moved to...

massive earthquake and tsunamis hit japan
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7671" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please endeavour to keep this topic focused on Theravada/sutta perspectives.

:focus:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
beeblebrox
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by beeblebrox »

dharmagoat wrote:If there really was an understanding in Buddha's time of how earthquakes were caused, why is fire not mentioned? We now know beyond doubt that the interior of the earth is very hot, the understanding being that this gives rise to the convection currents that are ultimately responsible for shifting the tectonic plates around.
The convection currents have nothing to do with fire. The fire would be a combustion, or the burning of a fuel. That isn't the only source of heat... a friction also can give off the heat. No one would call that a fire.

The heat is a form of energy. A convection current is what happens with the heat exchange between the fluids.

The earth's heat came from the gravitational contraction (the compression of the earth when it wasn't compacted at the start), and also radioactive decay of some materials within its mantle and core. The heat builds up because it's trapped within the earth due to high pressure, rocks' poor conductivity, and also the convection currents which keep it down, due to the flow patterns.

Some of the energy from those currents (their motions) ends up trapped at the crust's fault lines, because they're stuck at each other. When there's too much stored, the fault lines basically slip, releasing the energy throughout the crust, causing earthquakes.

The vedic terminology is very different from the ordinary use. Fire refers to consumption, the burning, digestion, and the "fire" that comes from those. Air (or wind) would be motion, or energy. Water is the fluids, and cohesion. I think that the convection "current" basically falls under these latter two... their interplay. Earth is the solidness, or the density. Space is literally the space, ordinary air, nothing, or the unsupportedness.

I don't think that the Buddha was trying to give us a scientific description, anyway... but by trying to view the elements like the above, it might give us a hint of what the Buddha was actually talking about. It could be that the Buddha viewed the nature of earthquake (not physics) as a nice template to give us some hints about what these elements mean, how they work with each other.

:anjali:
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Nibbida
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by Nibbida »

The Buddha repeatedly said that all he teaches is suffering and the end of suffering. Anything he might have said about earthquakes, pizza, or microwave ovens is not really of concern. It would be like consulting the Bible for advice on organic chemistry. It's missing the point.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by Kim OHara »

:goodpost:

:namaste:
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beeblebrox
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by beeblebrox »

Nibbida wrote:The Buddha repeatedly said that all he teaches is suffering and the end of suffering. Anything he might have said about earthquakes, pizza, or microwave ovens is not really of concern. It would be like consulting the Bible for advice on organic chemistry. It's missing the point.
It's actually relevant... perception and the saṅkhāras that it's based on are part of the paticca-samuppāda, for this dukkha. How a person (such as a brahmin, for example) views these elements would be based on his own saṅkhāra make-up.

Thinking that the convection currents have something to do with fire, is also based on this make-up. It's actually even based on ignorance... which would be the first link.

Contemplating this process is very simple to do, especially when it is done outside the real life, away from things that could distract one from it. That is the reason why we do meditation... to create an ideal environment to try see it from the Dhammic point of view, which is the paticca-samuppāda.

You can see the dukkha that this causes, what causes it, and how that falls away once it's penetrated. When this is understood, the paññā is developed. You then can use this to view the arising and falling away of the dukkha in the ever larger things...

None of the Buddha's teachings were superfluous.

:anjali:
Last edited by beeblebrox on Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:33 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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GIDGE
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Re: Science-Earthquake

Post by GIDGE »

who is really qualified to say what is relevant or what is not relevant or what the Buddha knew or didn't know regarding earthquakes? I'd like to be introduced to this qualified person and request to study beneath them.
:anjali:
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