I've never had a drink, and likely never will.
I was just curious.
<-- root beer
Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
- mettafuture
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- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:13 pm
Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
Hi MF
I think we discussed the question of the fifth precept not long ago. You might want to look it up to get the range of views you are looking for.
A search for "fifth precept" should locate the thread.
kind regards
Ben
I think we discussed the question of the fifth precept not long ago. You might want to look it up to get the range of views you are looking for.
A search for "fifth precept" should locate the thread.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- mettafuture
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:13 pm
Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
Found it:Ben wrote:Hi MF
I think we discussed the question of the fifth precept not long ago. You might want to look it up to get the range of views you are looking for.
A search for "fifth precept" should locate the thread.
kind regards
Ben
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=87" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks.
Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
There was a more contentious one (in this subforum?) as I recall, where Ben and I locked horns...
PS of course if you don't drink I see absolutely no reason to start, or even wonder about it. Enough challenges in this life already without looking for new ones, if you ask me. As for idle curiosity/opening a can of worms, what is a Buddhist (is there an official definition)? Well, there are many people who consider themselves Buddhist and practice to various degrees as well as drink occasionally (eg ME!). Is this in line with the teaching? Is this harmful? Is this something to be avoided? Is this at the top of priorities as far as practice is concerned?
For me: No, Yes, Yes and No. It's a question of degree. Personally staying too long on this machine is far more harmful to my practice than a monthly glass of wine.
PS of course if you don't drink I see absolutely no reason to start, or even wonder about it. Enough challenges in this life already without looking for new ones, if you ask me. As for idle curiosity/opening a can of worms, what is a Buddhist (is there an official definition)? Well, there are many people who consider themselves Buddhist and practice to various degrees as well as drink occasionally (eg ME!). Is this in line with the teaching? Is this harmful? Is this something to be avoided? Is this at the top of priorities as far as practice is concerned?
For me: No, Yes, Yes and No. It's a question of degree. Personally staying too long on this machine is far more harmful to my practice than a monthly glass of wine.
_/|\_
Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
If you're after a simple answer: no. The fifth precept clearly prohibits alcohol in any quantity for those who uphold it, except when it is consumed unknowingly or as an essential ingredient in medicines.
But then again, if you were into black and white legalistic prohibitions without explanation, Judaism or Islam might be more your style ...so I doubt that such an answer will be particularly satisfactory.
But then again, if you were into black and white legalistic prohibitions without explanation, Judaism or Islam might be more your style ...so I doubt that such an answer will be particularly satisfactory.
I'm not very good at right speech, although I try, so please guide and correct me if necessary so I don't make bad kamma for myself and cause others to be annoyed. (=
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Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
a simple answer ? Some can and do. Some cant and do. Some cant and dont. Some can and dont.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
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Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
[quote="Viriya"]If you're after a simple answer: no. The fifth precept clearly prohibits alcohol in any quantity for those who uphold it, except when it is consumed unknowingly or as an essential ingredient in medicines.
No it doesnt....
It doesnt mention alcohol at all
It talks about that which causes heedlessness. For many many people a glass of wine or beer does not cause heedlessness. For others they do.
No it doesnt....
It doesnt mention alcohol at all
It talks about that which causes heedlessness. For many many people a glass of wine or beer does not cause heedlessness. For others they do.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
- Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
I know people who if they think that they may go out for a drink on any particular day do not take the 5th precept that day.
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning
Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
That's the main issue, for me: did I intend, today, to follow the fifth precept? If I did, then I cannot later renege and decide to interpret the precept with a loose eye, but if for example there was a party or other social engagement (a faculty meeting, perhaps dinner with the boss) I would have to decide if certain of the precepts were something I felt pressured to avoid on this occasion or that. This means that, prior to a reiteration of the precepts, I decide which precepts I'm likely to break. This, of course, is an occasion for examining Right Livelihood...
- mettafuture
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Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
I take a very cut and dry approach when it comes to interpreting the precepts.
"I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness."
If you undertake to refrain from doing (to not do) something, there isn't any room for sips.
And a question everyone who drinks should ask themselves is "Why?" Why do you need to drink? And if it's the taste you enjoy, why can't you just have a non-alcoholic version of that drink? My guess is many drinkers, even casual drinkers, enjoy the buzz. The alcohol relaxes them. It "takes the edge off." But having a consistent meditation practice, and developing the 4 brahmaviharas can have the same calming effect.
"I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness."
If you undertake to refrain from doing (to not do) something, there isn't any room for sips.
And a question everyone who drinks should ask themselves is "Why?" Why do you need to drink? And if it's the taste you enjoy, why can't you just have a non-alcoholic version of that drink? My guess is many drinkers, even casual drinkers, enjoy the buzz. The alcohol relaxes them. It "takes the edge off." But having a consistent meditation practice, and developing the 4 brahmaviharas can have the same calming effect.
Last edited by mettafuture on Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
Indeed!mettafuture wrote:I take a very cut and dry approach when it comes to interpreting the precepts.
"I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness."
If you undertake to refrain from (to not do) doing something, there isn't any room for sips.
But since my view on this subject is very well known, I'll bow out of this discussion so that others can express theirs.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
mettafuture wrote:I take a very cut and dry approach when it comes to interpreting the precepts.
"I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness."
If you undertake to refrain from (to not do) doing something, there isn't any room for sips.
And so what happens to someone who slips up and imbibes? Do they no longer get to carry the label "Buddhist" but you do? Does anyone here keep the precepts lock, stock and barrel? Doubtful. Its a precept and to me that's one of the beauties of the Buddha. He knew we were all fallible and gave us his advice to lead a more happy, safe life. Don't drink sure. But if you do you're excommunicated? No.
adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183
- retrofuturist
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Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
Greetings,
I find that it's detrimental to mindfulness, both at the time, and it interrupts any cumulative mindfulness that may have been developed recently. I find that mindfulness needs to be a 'habit' and alcohol interrupts this.
That said, I don't find questions like "Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?" particularly helpful... I think it's more important to understand and address the (generally negative) causal relationship between alcohol consumption and Dhamma practice. Through understanding the relationship, lifestyle decisions can be made intelligently, rather than through resorting to techniques such as blind adherence, proclamations, generalisations, guilt and shame.
Metta,
Retro.
I find that it's detrimental to mindfulness, both at the time, and it interrupts any cumulative mindfulness that may have been developed recently. I find that mindfulness needs to be a 'habit' and alcohol interrupts this.
That said, I don't find questions like "Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?" particularly helpful... I think it's more important to understand and address the (generally negative) causal relationship between alcohol consumption and Dhamma practice. Through understanding the relationship, lifestyle decisions can be made intelligently, rather than through resorting to techniques such as blind adherence, proclamations, generalisations, guilt and shame.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
- mettafuture
- Posts: 475
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:13 pm
Re: Can a Buddhist drink alcohol in moderation?
Ben wrote:Indeed!mettafuture wrote:I take a very cut and dry approach when it comes to interpreting the precepts.
"I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness."
If you undertake to refrain from doing (to not do) something, there isn't any room for sips.
But since my view on this subject is very well known, I'll bow out of this discussion so that others can express theirs.
No. You take the precepts again, and try not to mess up again.adosa wrote:mettafuture wrote:I take a very cut and dry approach when it comes to interpreting the precepts.
"I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness."
If you undertake to refrain from doing (to not do) something, there isn't any room for sips.
And so what happens to someone who slips up and imbibes? Do they no longer get to carry the label "Buddhist" but you do?
I try to. Of course mistakes are bound to happen. What matters is whether or not you have the right intention and effort.Does anyone here keep the precepts lock, stock and barrel?
Last edited by mettafuture on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.