Tathāgata

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Re: Tathāgata

Postby green » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:20 pm

pererin wrote:In his translation and commentary on the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (see http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .harv.html), Dr Peter Harvey discusses Tathāgata as follows:

One Who Moves in Reality: Tathāgata is a term for a Buddha. It literally means "Thus-gone" or "Thus-come." What is "thus" is what is real. Translating the term as "One Who Moves in Reality" brings the term alive as referring to person who has awakened to the real nature of things, and experiences things as they really are, most significantly in terms of dukkha, its origination, its cessation, and the way to this.


Any thoughts on this?

Metta


That seems to be saying the same thing as Buddha "turning the wheel of the Dhamma"...the or dhammachakapavatan.

The Dhammachaka is the entire 4 Noble Truths (12 spoke wheel as opposed to the eightspoked wheel which is commonly shown).

This Dhammachakka is also called Brahma chakra - or the wheel of creation.
So the entire 4 Noble Truths is the wheel of creation which Buddha moves...without the dhamma -- Buddha warns -- will be crushed by the wheel if any priest or contemplative dares to try to stop it.



§ 112. {Iti 4.13; Iti 121}
"The world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. From the world, the Tathagata is disjoined. The origination of the world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. The origination of the world has, by the Tathagata, been abandoned. The cessation of the world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. The cessation of the world has, by the Tathagata, been realized. The path leading to the cessation of the world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. The path leading to the cessation of the world has, by the Tathagata, been developed.

"Whatever in this world — with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations complete with contemplatives & priests, princes & men — is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect, that has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. Thus he is called the Tathagata.

"From the night the Tathagata fully awakens to the unsurpassed Right Self-awakening to the night he is totally unbound in the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining, whatever the Tathagata has said, spoken, explained is just so (tatha) and not otherwise. Thus he is called the Tathagata.

"The Tathagata is one who does in line with (tathaa) what he teaches, one who teaches in line with what he does. Thus he is called the Tathagata.

"In this world with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations complete with contemplatives & priests, princes & men, the Tathagata is the unconquered conqueror, all-seeing, the wielder of power. Thus he is called the Tathagata."


THE DHAMMA WHEEL:

And when the Blessed One had set the Wheel of Dhamma in motion, the earth devas cried out: "At Varanasi, in the Game Refuge at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by priest or contemplative, deva, Mara or God or anyone in the cosmos." On hearing the earth devas' cry, the devas of the Four Kings' Heaven took up the cry... the devas of the Thirty-three... the Yama devas... the Tusita devas... the Nimmanarati devas... the Paranimmita-vasavatti devas... the devas of Brahma's retinue took up the cry: "At Varanasi, in the Game Refuge at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by priest or contemplative, deva, Mara, or God or anyone at all in the cosmos."
So in that moment, that instant, the cry shot right up to the Brahma worlds. And this ten-thousand fold cosmos shivered & quivered & quaked, while a great, measureless radiance appeared in the cosmos, surpassing the effulgence of the devas.
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Re: Tathāgata

Postby Dhammanando » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:58 pm

green wrote:There are many other terms to describe it, e.g. Buddha-nature, Self-nature Pure Mind, Dharmakaya (Dharma Body), Tathagata-garbha (Buddha-treasury), Reality (real mark), Dharma Realm, Dharma Nature, the Complete and Perfect real nature, etc.


In the Classical Forum please limit discussion to Theravadin terms and sources.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Tathāgata

Postby green » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:02 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
green wrote:There are many other terms to describe it, e.g. Buddha-nature, Self-nature Pure Mind, Dharmakaya (Dharma Body), Tathagata-garbha (Buddha-treasury), Reality (real mark), Dharma Realm, Dharma Nature, the Complete and Perfect real nature, etc.


In the Classical Forum please limit discussion to Theravadin terms and sources.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu


Sorry, most of what I write is in the general discussion -- I didn't realize this was classical Theravada.
:anjali:
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