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The heart as the physical base of the mind? - Dhamma Wheel

The heart as the physical base of the mind?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Stiphan
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The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Stiphan » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:10 pm


rowyourboat
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:12 pm

I have read that in the visuddhimagga that the Buddha said the mind resides in the head and the heart. Experientially that seems to be correct as we experience some emotions in the heard and thinking seems to happen around the head area (even though the mind cannot be physically pinpointed in space).

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Individual
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Individual » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:59 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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bodom
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby bodom » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:33 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:44 pm


rowyourboat
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:05 pm

I remember seeing a documentary in the BBC saying that those who have had heart transplants remembering the previous person's memories! Several cases in fact..! It was saying that the heart has nerve tissue much like that of the brain. So far it is known that the heart can generate its own impulses using this nerve tissue, even when it is not connected to the brain. So I think it is not yet established in science but there are some indicators that we maybe heading in that direction...
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Individual
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Individual » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:30 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


rowyourboat
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:38 pm

Hi Individual

You maybe right. In any case, we shouldn't be mixing science with the dhamma. The former is 'objective' the latter is experiential. So if we mix up the 'brain' and 'heart' (objects) for where mental phenomena are felt we will end up quite confused.

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Nibbida
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Nibbida » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:17 pm

This isn't as cut and dried as it may seem. The Heartmath Institute and other people have been doing a lot of quality research on the extensive interconnection between the heart and brain. There is research on heart rate variability and psychological states in top research journals, particularly on heart rate variability.

The heart doesn't seem to "think" the way the brain does, but the highly reciprocal influences that they have shows that the heart responds and contributes to cognitive and emotional states in ways that were not fully appreciated until recently. They are distinguishable organs, but they also part of an interdependent system. Whether we see them as "separate" or "one" is a concept, but they do function in concert. So the idea of "citta" is not as far off as it may seem to our modern perspective.

Individual
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Individual » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:31 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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Nibbida
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Nibbida » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:15 pm

Sure. Certain findings seem pretty consistent, whether from Heartmath or other people. Negative states of mind are associated with low heart rate variability, meaning that the heart does not have the normal responsiveness to situations and demands, changing as needed. Positive states of mind are associated with higher HRV, and doing HRV biofeedback increases positive states of mind. In fact, I read a book, I think by Childers in which he recommended some steady breathing technique (that increases HRV) coupled with focusing on thoughts of love towards someone. the combination had the strongest effect on increasing HRV (which is physiologically good), and is pretty much like loving-kindness meditation.


McCraty, R., M. Atkinson, et al. (1995). The effects of emotions on short term heart rate variability using power spectrum analysis. American Journal of Cardiology 76: 1089-1093.

Impact of depression and antidepressant treatment on heart rate variability: A review and meta-analysis. Kemp, Andrew H.; Quintana, Daniel S.; Gray, Marcus A.; Felmingham, Kim L.; Brown, Kerri; Gatt, Justine M.; Biological Psychiatry, Vol 67(11), Jun 1, 2010. pp. 1067-1074.

Heart rate variability (HRV) in adolescent females with anxiety disorders and major depressive disorder. Blom, E. Henje; Olsson, E. M.; Serlachius, E.; Ericson, M.; Ingvar, M.; Acta Paediatrica, Vol 99(4), Apr, 2010. pp. 604-611.

Armour, J. A. and J. Ardell, Eds. (1994). Neurocardiology. New York, NY, Oxford University Press.

Kok, B.E, Fredrickson, B.L. (in press). Upward spirals of the heart: Autonomic flexibility, as indexed by vagal tone, reciprocally and prospectively predicts positive emotions and social connectedness Biological Psychology


Vagal tone as an indicator of treatment response in major depression. Chambers AS, Allen JJ. Psychophysiology. 2002 Nov;39(6):861-4.

Individual
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Individual » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:56 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


rowyourboat
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Location: London, UK

Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:34 pm

Hi Individual

You can believe in what you want. Equally you are free not to believe as well.

As far as beliefs go (since current science isn't the final version of the truth) I tend to believe in what is helpful for my practice.

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:17 am


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Hanzze
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:32 am

Maybe that help on the question:

Image

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:53 am


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Hanzze
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:12 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Hanzze
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Location: Cambodia

Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:31 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

pt1
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby pt1 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:05 pm


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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: The heart as the physical base of the mind?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:10 am



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