Materialism and Buddhism

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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:00 am

Laurens wrote:Time and time again we discover natural processes behind things that at first may seem miraculous. In light of what we know, there is no reason whatsoever to assume miracles or supernatural any more. It's better to assume that something has an as yet undiscovered natural cause than to assume the supernatural.


Good point. And our biological perception is actually quite limited, gradually we have begun to discover all sorts of other things going on as scientific equipment has developed.

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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:09 pm

5heaps wrote:
Sanghamitta wrote:The real problem lies within the views of spiritism contrasted with those of Buddha Dhamma.
Buddha asserted persons which function, which collect karma, are born and die, etc. not appearances of persons and appearances of suffering people. likewise, the 4 arya truths are not appearances of truths and appearances of being applicable to your life, they do apply to your life. likewise you are alive, there is not the appearance of being alive. i hate to be the one to tell you but _your_ actions produce effects, not appearances of effects; just like physical things produce effects, not appearances of effects. materialism is so nihilistic that pretty soon there will be a substantial school of though which says even physical things only appear to function.



Another string of non sequiturs which address none of the points I made. But instead substitute a series of retorts to points I did not.
But as I am not a debate hobbyist, lets leave it there.

:anjali:
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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby alan » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:24 am

I am a debate hobbyist!
I love to debate. Especially about really important things, with people who care.
But you know what? Some people are just not worth talking to. Like those who put together a string of non sequiturs which do not address any reasonable points.
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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:25 am

I am not saying that no one should be a debate hobbyist Alan...there are far worse things to be ... :smile:
I am just saying that I am not one. I think on the whole that is a male interest...( ducks )

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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby Lazy_eye » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:23 pm

Re: materialism, I've seen the term used in a variety of ways. It isn't always reductive -- i.e. doesn't necessarily mean that all meaningful experience should be seen as nothing more than a collection of material processes. That's a rather hardcore view, actually, though it gets used often as a straw man in arguments.

It can simply mean that all experience has a material component, and that if you take the material component away, the experience disappears too.

It's a little like the distinction between the "content" and "technical" aspect of the internet. For the purposes of having a discussion, Dhammawheel is not simply a technical process. But if the technical process stops working, no discussions can take place.
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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:31 pm

I suspect that you are correct and that materialism is often read as advocating a position that says that only the measurable exists....the root of maya means to measure btw.
However in some discussions it is used a corrective to the idea which seems to be prevalent in some Mahayana circles and possibly beyond that we are talking of a docetic Buddhist inspired by a docetic Buddha in a docetic Universe.
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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby Hanzze » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:41 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:45 pm

That's we what call a joke Hanzze..
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby Hanzze » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:55 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby Will » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:20 pm

Laurens: Just that reality works as it is without anything supernatural. I would be open to changing my view if some evidence was presented that indicated there was something beyond this material reality. Until then there isn't much reason to believe it.


So when Buddha teaches devas or pours forth fire & water from his body or talks about invisible realms or demons or asuras, that is not sufficient "reason" for you to believe him, even provisionally?
This noble eightfold path is the ancient path traveled by all the Buddhas of eons past. Nagara Sutta
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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby 5heaps » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:15 am

A Japanese man has been arrested on suspicion of writing a computer virus that destroys and replaces files on a victim PC with manga images of squid, octopuses and sea urchins. Masato Nakatsuji, 27, of Izumisano, Osaka Prefecture, was quoted as telling police: "I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested."
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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby alan » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:35 am

Oh Gawd! Chomsky has been irrelevant for decades.
Let's just take a quick look at his basic philosophy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

It is true he was right about Vietnam, and the fact that he spoke out early and often is to his everlasting credit. But why would a Buddhist be interested in his theories?
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Re: Materialism and Buddhism

Postby Ben » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:43 am

Hi Alan
alan wrote:Oh Gawd! Chomsky has been irrelevant for decades.
Let's just take a quick look at his basic philosophy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

It is true he was right about Vietnam, and the fact that he spoke out early and often is to his everlasting credit. But why would a Buddhist be interested in his theories?

Years ago I watched a documentary based on 'manufacturing consent'. At the time - loved it. So, I went and bought the book. Got about ten pages in and...just had to put it down. Tried again, put it down again. I remember at the time that it did seem as though through the passage of a couple of decades, it had lost some of its relevancy.
Anyway,time to get back outside again.

Ben
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