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by Coëmgenu
Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:16 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 254
Views: 3777

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

These 17 sects are schismatic, only one is non-schismatic. With the non-schismatic sect, there are eighteen in all. Like a great banyan tree, the Theravāda is supreme, The Dispensation of the Conqueror, complete, without lack or excess. The other sects arose like thorns on the tree. — Dīpavaṃsa You...
by Coëmgenu
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:34 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Learner/Sekha Arhats
Replies: 12
Views: 181

Re: Learner/Sekha Arhats

Yes, I see looking at them now. I had been mistakenly thinking it was to do with retrogradability.
by Coëmgenu
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:23 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Learner/Sekha Arhats
Replies: 12
Views: 181

Re: Learner/Sekha Arhats

It's like Mahādeva's thesis in some accounts, but the Sarvāstivādins aren't Mahāsāṃghikas. Kathāvatthu probably has something in it related to this. I'll go looking.
by Coëmgenu
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:09 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Learner/Sekha Arhats
Replies: 12
Views: 181

Re: Learner/Sekha Arhats

They get it from Sarvāstivādins and sources like that, along with whatever innovations they made to those.
by Coëmgenu
Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:22 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Learner/Sekha Arhats
Replies: 12
Views: 181

Re: Learner/Sekha Arhats

Ok, I'll say it directly: you made a laughable mistake. You don't know the declension of the word "arhat" in Sanskrit. It's not "arhantaḥ", it's "arhataḥ". I don't think it's even vaguely true that I made a laughable mistake. The rest of your post I didn't read and won't bother to. I make absolutel...
by Coëmgenu
Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:52 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Learner/Sekha Arhats
Replies: 12
Views: 181

Re: Learner/Sekha Arhats

Sarvāstivāda Abhidharma was compiled in a good Sanskrit, so the incorrect Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit form arhant is out of place there. Irrelevant comment. Also, very uninformed. Also "paravāda" is a term I think I've never met in the Pāli scriptures or in Sanskrit Abhidharmic ones, it's some late Ma...
by Coëmgenu
Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:45 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Learner/Sekha Arhats
Replies: 12
Views: 181

Learner/Sekha Arhats

SarathW recently posted, "Once you become a Sotapanna, do you still have to learn Dhamma?" In the Paravādin Sarvāstivādin Abhidharma system, there is a class of Arhantaḥ ("Arahants") who must use/learn something called the "vajropamasamādhi" to destroy the remainder of their afflictions. Is there an...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:17 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins
Replies: 34
Views: 655

Re: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins

Two last bits of random trivia: the continental Vibhajyavādins in India as attested to in sectarian documents like Abhidharmakośa are not identical to the insular Vibhajyavādins of Sri Lanka who are the forerunners of modern Theravāda. Sometimes completely different Abhidharma jurisprudence is attri...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:48 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins
Replies: 34
Views: 655

Re: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins

IMO, Yogācāra is "Mahāyāna-ized" Sarvāstivādin Buddhism with untold untraceable influence from other minority schools. I once disagreed with another user on this but have since come around to admit that we can't really trace any Vibhajyavādin influence on Yogācāra despite Ven Maitreyanātha's compari...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:45 pm
Forum: Connections to Other Paths
Topic: Any real life examples these days of Tetralemma (Catuskoti) fourfold negation? What would be the fifth ('true') corner?
Replies: 20
Views: 414

Re: Any real life examples these days of Tetralemma (Catuskoti) fourfold negation? What would be the fifth ('true') corn

If the OP wants to find a "fifth corner," IMO a questionable exercise that likely defeats the point of Madhyamaka, a place they ought to go looking is at the Chinese elaborations of the two truths by Vens Zhiyi (Zhizhe) and Jizang of the Tiantai and Sanlun schools respectively. Ven Jizang's "four mi...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:04 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins
Replies: 34
Views: 655

Re: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins

To a Madhyamaka insight, as far as I understand it, is that the dhammas aren’t ultimately real. A Theravādin would emerge from jhāna, review it and have insight into the impermanence etc of those dhammas. A follower of Madhyamaka would emerge, review and have insight that said dhammas don’t really ...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:46 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins
Replies: 34
Views: 655

Re: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins

They arise together, as a cluster. Their sabhava distinguishes them. The argument between the two perspectives of svabhāvavāda and niḥsvabhāva are too much for the thread, but I get that that's the Theravādin perspective. Niḥsvabhāva is why the OP is on shaky grounds and why, as far as I understand...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:46 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins
Replies: 34
Views: 655

Re: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins

When experience is reduced there is citta and sañña. Can it actually be reduced so? Is this a valid reduction? For instance, can we say that sañña is an irreducible aspect of experience if we cannot actually reduce experience to "sañña" and "citta" components that are separate and discrete? A deepl...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:18 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins
Replies: 34
Views: 655

Re: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins

Well, I suppose therein lies the controverted point: is experience/cognition itself, sañña, "irreducible" like an atom? Theravāda in claiming that finds itself closer to the Yogācārins than to the Madhyamakas, but obviously it is not fair to draw any more equivalence than that.