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by Ceisiwr
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:03 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins
Replies: 16
Views: 283

Re: A touchstone for Classical Theravadins

We have a forum that contains a massive amount, possibly a majority of crypto-Madhyamaka-Yogacarins (everything is non existent, and/or imaginary/hallucination).NThe most common method of debate is to "find" Madhyamaka and/or Yogacara teachings in the Pali Canon, and then deny that these are Madhay...
by Ceisiwr
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:48 am
Forum: Connections to Other Paths
Topic: Any real life examples these days of Tetralemma (Catuskoti) fourfold negation? What would be the fifth ('true') corner?
Replies: 13
Views: 225

Re: Any real life examples these days of Tetralemma (Catuskoti) fourfold negation? What would be the fifth ('true') corn

Beings stuck on the polarity of "is" and "is not" actually entertain their own hidden theories of eternity and annihilation. These, referring to views concerning the existence of existence and nonexistence, are refined metaphysical versions of eternalism and annihilationism. I still don’t understan...
by Ceisiwr
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:36 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 187
Views: 2488

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

It’s worth noting that the elements (dhatu) in general aren’t physical “things” but are qualities of experience. For example, apart from the 4 elements there is the pleasure element or the element of exertion and so on. They aren’t talking about what stuff makes up things, but aspects of direct exp...
by Ceisiwr
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:18 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 187
Views: 2488

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

It’s worth noting that the elements (dhatu) in general aren’t physical “things” but are qualities of experience. For example, apart from the 4 elements there is the pleasure element or the element of exertion and so on. They aren’t talking about what stuff makes up things, but aspects of direct expe...
by Ceisiwr
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:40 pm
Forum: Connections to Other Paths
Topic: Koan and its relation to Theravada Tipitaka?
Replies: 13
Views: 163

Re: Koan and its relation to Theravada Tipitaka?

… I was thinking of this: “How, dear sir, did you cross the flood?” “By not halting, friend, and by not straining I crossed the flood.” “But how is it, dear sir, that by not halting and by not straining you crossed the flood?” “When I came to a standstill, friend, then I sank; but when I struggled,...
by Ceisiwr
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:38 pm
Forum: Connections to Other Paths
Topic: Koan and its relation to Theravada Tipitaka?
Replies: 13
Views: 163

Re: Koan and its relation to Theravada Tipitaka?

Read Ajahn Chah. He got the point. That's as good an entry point for a Theravadan as any. ‘If you can’t go forward and you can’t go back and you can’t stand still, where can you go?’ - Ajahn Chah. :sage: He was a gem. :bow: :bow: :bow: Mind you, that was an old Zen koan, SV. But Ajahn Chah, he was ...
by Ceisiwr
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:10 pm
Forum: Connections to Other Paths
Topic: Koan and its relation to Theravada Tipitaka?
Replies: 13
Views: 163

Re: Koan and its relation to Theravada Tipitaka?

The dude above commits many rookie errors. From mistranslating "Hinayana" as "Smaller/Lesser Vehicle" where "hina" is sadly much more negatively loaded, to more importantly construing Sunyata as "clearness" or "openness" which while being admirable qualities have nothing to do with Emptiness either...
by Ceisiwr
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:00 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 187
Views: 2488

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Y. Karunadasa on “derived rupa” in his book on the Abhidhamma (worth a read everyone).
by Ceisiwr
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:48 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 187
Views: 2488

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

The mahabhuta seem to describe the kind of stuff things are made of. Hard stuff, runny stuff, hot stuff, etc. Rupa seems to describe how we actually experience stuff. The fact remains that the Buddha included the mahabhuta, and then made a distinction between those and rupa. With your interpretatio...
by Ceisiwr
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:46 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 187
Views: 2488

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

… Consider this sutta: Thus I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Rajagaha on Vulture’s Peak Mountain. Then early in the morning, Ven. Sariputta put on his robes and, carrying his bowl and outer robe, was coming down from Vulture’s Peak Mountain with a large group of mo...
by Ceisiwr
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:40 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 187
Views: 2488

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

If you’d like to see how easily a noumena or substance can turn into a self or being of sorts, read Schopenhauer. In Kant’s noumenon, the thing beyond the qualities, he said there was the “Will”, which he thought was similar to Brahman.
by Ceisiwr
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:37 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 187
Views: 2488

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

I imagine the Buddha was just using the understanding of the time in relation to the elements. Whilst the concepts predate him he uses them in a much more phenomenalist manner. I don't see why using the mahabhuta would open up atta theories, since most "stuff" consists of a combination of elements,...
by Ceisiwr
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:24 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 187
Views: 2488

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

If the Buddha was a full phenomenalist, why did he bother to include the mahabhuta, which as you say, lend themselves to a nounenal interpretation? And taking this to its logical conclusion, why even bother with rupa, when he could have just talked about sense-objects? If you go for a swim, water i...