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by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:09 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

One for Pratyekabuddhas in the sky, One for the Śrāvakasaṃgha on the sly, One for Bodhisattvas doomed to die, One for the Bright One on his Empty Throne In Jambudvīpa where the Buddhas fly. One Yāna to rule them all, One Yāna to guide them, One Yāna to bring them all, to patronize and chide them In...
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:29 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Reality
Replies: 12
Views: 135

Re: Reality

What is reality? Is every experience a mere concept, or not? Is there a reality behind some concepts and not others, or not? I have my own view, but I’m interested in hearing the position of other members? What exactly do you mean by "concept" here, and how does this differ from giving something a ...
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:47 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Reality
Replies: 12
Views: 135

Reality

What is reality? Is every experience a mere concept, or not? Is there a reality behind some concepts and not others, or not? I have my own view, but I’m interested in hearing the position of other members?
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:31 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Conditional Relations, DO, and Abhidhamma
Replies: 1
Views: 44

Re: Conditional Relations, DO, and Abhidhamma

As with most teachings it’s been stripped down for memorisation. Altogether there are 24 conditions.
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:21 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

[ Oh. You want to get into “cognition”? That’s a laugh. Let’s look at the suttas. He tastes “bitter” he tastes “sweet” he tastes “pungent” he tastes “bland”. That is why they call it “cognition”. Funny right? Well that is exactly what the Buddha said about “cognition”. What did he say about “percep...
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:10 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Aha. And yet you must still convince us that the Abhidamma isn’t a pile of useless lists Please tell us in detail what happens in a moment of cognition? Oh. You want to get into “cognition”? That’s a laugh. Let’s look at the suttas. He tastes “bitter” he tastes “sweet” he tastes “pungent” he tastes...
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:31 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Who cares about these endless, documented battles? When you study Buddhist history you realise that we reenact many of them on this page ;) I apologize. I’ve read the Theravada - Pugalavada arguments on “Self”. Don’t make me post them here. They’re utterly ridiculous - following a formulaic standar...
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:28 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Pondera wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:23 am Aha. And yet you must still convince us that the Abhidamma isn’t a pile of useless lists
Please tell us in detail what happens in a moment of cognition?
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:26 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

If I must relinquish the title of “Theravada Enthusiast” on the basis that I find the Abhidamma utterly tiresome and dry reading - I will happily take on the more refined and tasteful title of “Dhamma-vinaya Enthusiast”. Are you a Theravadin, Ceisiwr? Have you taken refuge among other Theravadins i...
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:25 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Pondera wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:23 am Who cares about these endless, documented battles?
When you study Buddhist history you realise that we reenact many of them on this page ;)
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:23 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

If I must relinquish the title of “Theravada Enthusiast” on the basis that I find the Abhidamma utterly tiresome and dry reading - I will happily take on the more refined and tasteful title of “Dhamma-vinaya Enthusiast”. Are you a Theravadin, Ceisiwr? Have you taken refuge among other Theravadins i...
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:20 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

I think in the end it's rather obvious that there is a split on this forum between Theravādins and Suttavādins. With that in mind I think it is important to remember that we share the same scripture, and I assume a same fondness if not love for the same tradition (even if Suttavādins have grumblings...
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:09 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

[ What is Retro then? Mahayanist ? Neo-buddhist? Secular Buddhist? I would classify him as a Suttavādin. Of course this still means he is a follower of the Blessed One, and a brother in the Dhamma. It's merely a difference in understanding. Retro looks to the suttas only, and monks whom take the sa...
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:51 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Sarvāstivāda : 3 unconditioned elements & dhammas exist in the 3 times. Pudgalavāda : 1 unconditioned element, but a person exists. Theravāda : 1 unconditioned element, the person doesn’t really exist. It’s a concept only. Theravāda here is closer to the Blessed One. Now the problems are , C is a s...
by Ceisiwr
Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:43 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 253
Views: 3752

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Not according to SN 12.15. :smile: Which in no way contradicts what I’ve said. An argument does not become true, simply through repetition. Yet you yourself have explained the suttas through quoting Ven. Nananada et al. If the suttas were enough, on their own, why the commentary and higher Dhamma? ...