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by pitithefool
Fri May 21, 2021 6:52 am
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

Care to tell me what the difference is? the suttas say the 1st jhana is made up of five factors. if letting go was a factor of the 1st jhana then letting go would cease when the 1st jhana ceases. Various suttas say the noble disciple regards the jhana factors as alien, not-self, unsatisfactory, etc...
by pitithefool
Fri May 21, 2021 6:36 am
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

DooDoot wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 6:33 am
pitithefool wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 6:32 am THEN WE AGREE :toast:
no, we do not agree. you said jhana is fabricated (sankharoti) from letting go and i said letting go was merely a condition (paccaya)

:strawman: :jedi:
Care to tell me what the difference is?
by pitithefool
Fri May 21, 2021 6:32 am
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

So what? Are you going to refute the Buddha himself by saying that the in and out breaths cease in the first jhana, when the Buddha clearly stated that they cease in the fourth? I never said in and out breaths cease in the first jhana. I said they are not perceptible in the 1st jhana. that doesn't ...
by pitithefool
Fri May 21, 2021 6:30 am
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

So what? Are you going to refute the Buddha himself by saying that the in and out breaths cease in the first jhana, when the Buddha clearly stated that they cease in the fourth? I never said in and out breaths cease in the first jhana. I said they are not perceptible in the 1st jhana. DD I am not a...
by pitithefool
Fri May 21, 2021 6:23 am
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

in-and out breaths are not perceptible in 1st jhana. u have been advised, repeatedly, the 1st jhana appears not experienced by u. So what? Are you going to refute the Buddha himself by saying that the in and out breaths cease in the first jhana, when the Buddha clearly stated that they cease in the...
by pitithefool
Thu May 20, 2021 7:13 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

I agree that Ven. Thanissaro seems to be more of a philosopher and thinker, than "practical" meditation master. I respect his courage to dig and think about Damma, instead of just quoting the suttas, like some other scholars. But he comes from the Ajahn Lee line of teaching, which is very...
by pitithefool
Thu May 20, 2021 7:06 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

What you wrote is true - in a way. Perhaps they speak about the same thing, ultimately. That would be nice, becaouse those two are my favorite teachers :toast: . It depends on which points you carry away from each respective teacher. In my view, A Brahm's teaching goes straight for the throat. His ...
by pitithefool
Thu May 20, 2021 6:31 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

I get what you're saying. However, you seem to be trying to say that jhana is unfabricated, which simply isn't true. I must also clarify, by fabrications, I do not mean fabricated as in willed and grabbed at, but rather fabricated in the sense of having conditions. In the first jhana, speech and se...
by pitithefool
Wed May 12, 2021 10:57 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

... You aren’t entirely wrong per se. Letting go is a ceasing of activity, so it’s not a building up of activity. Vitakka-vicara are intentions to let go, of renunciation (Right Intention). The Jhanas are states of letting go which is why the ascetics of DN1 (the ones at the end), who were also loo...
by pitithefool
Wed May 12, 2021 10:13 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
Replies: 122
Views: 12030

Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?

according to sutta, monks and layman like citta can enter without difficulty in 1 or 2 minutes.. maybe buddha can get in 2 or 3 seconds... Yeah it shouldn't really take that long. BUT, that's based on your skill as a meditator, and it may take a VERY long time. The more you chase after it, the wors...
by pitithefool
Wed May 12, 2021 9:18 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

For example Ven. Thanissaro breath meditation instructions focus on manipulating the experience, looking for a pleasant breath sensation and adjusting it. There is a will effort involved and for sure lot of fabricating. Anfd he has some valid arguments. He pointed out, that the phrases used by the ...
by pitithefool
Sun May 09, 2021 9:27 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

DooDoot wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 9:18 pm no. the work of the meditator is to "let go"
Yes, and letting go is a fabrication, is it not?

I see where you're going with this, but I can't deny the jhana itself is fabricated.
by pitithefool
Sun May 09, 2021 9:23 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

Jhana appears unrelated to Anapanasati. Anapanasati appears to be access concentration. in Anapanasati, there is no "reviewing consciousness". I get what you're saying. If you're practicing all of the steps, that gets you to access, then once absorption, the sutta itself sortof becomes ir...
by pitithefool
Sun May 09, 2021 9:12 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:55 pm
Makes sense to me :twothumbsup:
by pitithefool
Sun May 09, 2021 9:10 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Canonical defnition of jhana
Replies: 37
Views: 3406

Re: Canonical defnition of jhana

DooDoot wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 9:01 pm
You just like to contradict me don't you? lol