Search found 2504 matches

by Zom
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:25 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma
Replies: 93
Views: 8553

Re: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma

That's a history-specific argument. We, now, are not living in the time of the Buddha, we do not have a Buddha living among us.
This doesn't mean suttas no longer work and we need some additional Dhamma.
by Zom
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:51 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma
Replies: 93
Views: 8553

Re: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma

Given the variety of such developments, I'm always a little skeptical about statements about how "such-and-such is obvious from the suttas (and/or Canonical Abhidhamma)". That, of course, is also what modern commentators who disagree with the Theravada interpretation say about their interpretations...
by Zom
Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:30 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma
Replies: 93
Views: 8553

Re: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma

I already said the matikas are just a development of the lists we find in the suttas. In other words, the suttas contain an Abhidhamma method.
They do not. List is just a list, not more than that. Made up for easier recitation of the most important dhammic points.
by Zom
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:07 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma
Replies: 93
Views: 8553

Re: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma

What we find in the suttas would have been taught in greater detail by the Buddha and his immediate disciples.
In this case suttas would have inevitable traces of that, but they do not. Again, linguistically, suttas differ too much from abhidhammic texts, just as any early-late texts would differ.
by Zom
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:26 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma
Replies: 93
Views: 8553

Re: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma

Its not just "one more later interpretation". If we take the Dhammasaṅgaṇī we find lists of dhammas in the form of matika (matrix). There isn't anything controversial in there. Its simply a continuation and development of the lists we find in the suttas, with greater elaboration. All buddhist tradi...
by Zom
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:00 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma
Replies: 93
Views: 8553

Re: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma

The Abhidhamma is just a more detailed elaboration of what we find in the suttas. Seeing as how the suttas are heavily stripped back I can see a role for the Abhidhamma as well as the commentaries. First of all, this is just "one more later interpretation" which can be right, or wrong, unlike sutta...
by Zom
Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:44 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma
Replies: 93
Views: 8553

Re: On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma

Please choose an option and explain why you voted as you did.
Abhidhamma didn't exist in the Buddha's lifetime, and people practised very well 8-)
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:45 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 3288

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

One can say one acheved Nibbana, meaning one has destroyed all defilement and is an Arahant. Here too we can't replace Nibbana with sannavedananirodha. Again, this is because there are, canonically, 2 nibbanas: final (no residue left) and not final (residue left). Final is cessation, this is what n...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:38 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 3288

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

None, not one of your several sources say that Nirodha is the same as Nibbana. All they say is, based on jhana, one "directs his mind" toward Nibbana. If you're not even able to distinguish that phrase from the phrase "Nirodha is the same as Nibbana", then you need to take a break from Buddhist stu...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:10 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 3288

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

Please provide any exact sutta quote that says "cessation of perception and feeling" is Nibbana. Okay, I'll cite several. First of all, a common passage that describes how a practitioner, based on jhana, directs his mind to nibbana. For example, MN 64: and directs it towards the deathless element t...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:27 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 3288

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

Do you mean this? having seen [that] with discernment, his mental fermentations are completely ended. Sorry, but how this says that nibbana and nirodha are different? Let's put the word nibbana instead: "he enters nibbana... and having having seen [that] with discernment, his mental fermentations ar...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:19 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 3288

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

they don´t.
And for the third time I'm asking for the source. Can you cite a passage where suttas say that these two are different things?
I can cite a lot where they equate these two.
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:10 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 3288

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

your assertions have been called absurd I say that suttas say that "cessation of perception and feeling" is nibbana. Okay, you can call my words "an absurd", but this will be an absurd itself, because no matter what you say, suttas still equate these two - nirodha and nibbana. Even Buddhaghosa, tho...