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by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:53 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

What does it mean for an arahant to be deceived? What does it mean to say that "the trick worked" on them? Seconded. I'd like the OP to give three examples of actual magic tricks and what he means by the audience of the trick being "deceived" and the "trick working on them". It has no bearing on wh...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:52 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

As a supportive tangent, you could explore whether an arahant is subject to optical illusions, audio illusions, and other sensory illusions. Some magic tricks are based on such illusions. I mentioned in a previous post that the specifics of the delusion that the Arahant has transcended and the limi...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:41 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

The Angulimala Sutta shows an example of the Buddha using his psychic powers in a way seesm relevant to his teachings: Then the Blessed One willed a feat of psychic power such that Angulimala, though running with all his might, could not catch up with the Blessed One walking at normal pace. Then the...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:05 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

In the Buddha's days, are there people who are affected by witchcraft and looks for the Buddha and his chief disciples for help? My knowledge is limited in this area, but from what i know, Karaniya Metta sutta was given to monks who were harrassed in the forest by ghosts or evil spirits. The Ratana...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:08 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

binocular wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:02 am Do you really think that an arahant would stop at an intersection and watch a magician perform tricks?
Not necessarily, but your emphasis on this is missing the point.
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:06 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

If the Buddha thinks that already an ordinary person can recognize a magic trick as being without substance, then surely so can the arahant. The ordinary person knows in theory that a magic trick is without a substance and still gets impressed by it. Why? because his/her lack of certainty that are ...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:41 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

binocular wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:37 am My point is that you're describing a situation that, as a matter of principle, never happens.
Why? The fact that the Buddha provided a simile using magician or magician's apprentice (SN 22.29) shows that it is not logically impossible. As in the case when any two people meet!
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:37 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

the arahant by definiton is a realized-philosopher, as he has reached the goal of philosophy, which is perfect wisdom. and not through epistemological means —which would be impossible— but through the discipline of the dhamma. yes, the arahant is supposed to be omniscient, but as the buddha points ...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:28 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

I know this might be a silly question, but is it possible that Arahants get deceived by a magic trick? What i mean is: they do not necessarily get impressed by it, but can the trick work on them without knowing how it works? Do list at least three situations where this would be relevant. In what si...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:12 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

Also, you really didn't clarify what I requested. I think it was included in your previous answer: I know how some magic tricks work but they still deceive me in that there is the appearance of impossible things happening.....but I wouldn't say that I am impressed. Would the same thing apply to the...
by Bundokji
Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:04 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

Now that u bring this up about witchcraft or black magic, it is quite surprising that I dun remember reading any account about such in the nikayas. Its probably a different way of naming things among different cultures. Devaddata's unskillful use of his psychic powers can be seen as a form of black...
by Bundokji
Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:14 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

It's important to perceive the world correctly, and there is a whole invisible world out there. It is good to accept what the Scriptures tell us about certain phenomena, especially the Scriptures of the path we have decided to follow, so that an actual framework based on Loving Teaching is develope...
by Bundokji
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:49 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

Magic is a real thing. And there are references to it in Scripture :tongue: . It seems to have been more widely accepted in ancient (and possibly modern) India than in the west. In my region, people still believe in evil eye for example. It is difficult to tell to what extent certain phenomena are ...
by Bundokji
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:46 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

For example, I can tell the Japanese "researcher" that claimed he can capture loving kindness or aversion in the microscopic structure of water is not true, but some monks are deceived by him. Traditional healing or medicine before discovering germs linked health and sickness to good and evil power...
by Bundokji
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:43 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 11798

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

From what I've heard, the central tenet among magicians and conmen is that magic works because people want to be deceived and enjoy the deception. I take it that an arahant has no desire to be deceived, so magic becomes moot for him. I think you raise a good point there. In Buddhism, desire is ofte...