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by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:49 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: KATHA KV 18.8 Of Hearing in Jhāna
Replies: 5
Views: 114

Re: KATHA KV 18.8 Of Hearing in Jhāna

SarathW wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:37 am If you insist that he does, you have here two parallel mental procedures going on at the same time … .
The above is like claiming one can both "concentrate" and "think" in the 1st jhana. :roll:
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:24 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1924

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Very much so, hence their usage, and my comment to Sarath above that the rūpa of nama-rupa is always rupasañña (phenomena) and not materiality (nounemena) if the above is true, why is the word "and" found below: :shrug: "The four great elements, and form derived from them." "Cattaro ca mahabhuta, c...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:11 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1924

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

... indeed there are - and you have already presented it yourself. By stating "whether Realized Ones arise or not, this law of nature persists, this regularity of natural principles, this invariance of natural principles", you are stating that such a Dhamma is one that does not arise, and does not ...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:07 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1924

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

.... the Abhidhamma re-frames nama-rupa to mean "mentality" and "materiality" and treats them as things to be separated, rather than understanding them as inextricably entwined components of conditioned experience. This Abhidhammic bifurcation distorts and misrepresents the Sutta meanings, quoted a...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:59 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1924

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

SarathW wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:46 am I am fighting with my sward :jedi:
:rofl: :woohoo:
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:58 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Two aspects of rupa?
Replies: 28
Views: 303

Re: Two aspects of rupa?

Perhaps I did not understand your question. https://suttacentral.net/dn15/en/bodhi “It was said: ‘With consciousness as condition there is mentality-materiality.’ How that is so, Ānanda, should be understood in this way: If consciousness were not to descend into the mother’s womb, would mentality-m...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:54 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1924

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

It is like Nibbana or rebirth we have to accept this by faith. The suttas say Nibbana is visible here & now. Nibbāna AN 3.55 — Bhikkhu Bodhi ‘Directly visible nibbāna, directly visible nibbāna.’ In what way is nibbāna directly visible, immediate ... and dejection. It is in this way that nibbāna is ...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:52 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1924

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

If you understand my reply to #1 you will see the consciousness is dependently originated. Your reply to #1 appeared off-topic, i.e., wrong We all know that Abhidhamma asserts all these Rupa are impermanence. wrong rupa :focus: They all go through birth, continuation, and death. The suttas appear t...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:47 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1924

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Irrespective of the terminology this is what says in the sutta: When an object (external) and subject (internal) come together Vinnana arises. Abhidhamma Says: When Pureoctud (great elements and Gocara Rupa) and eye (Pureoctud plus internal Rupa and lifefaculty) come together Bhavaconscioiusness (C...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:39 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Two aspects of rupa?
Replies: 28
Views: 303

Re: Two aspects of rupa?

What's your understanding of the distinction being made here? What do these two aspects of rupa represent, practically speaking? DN 15 says: How that is so, Ānanda, should be understood in this way: If consciousness were not to descend into the mother’s womb , would mentality-materiality take shape...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:27 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1924

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Common Abhidhamma Argument #3 - Dhammas exist, independent of observation Sutta Reponse: This may be true of noumena such as mahabhuta, which are not phenomena (dhammas) but as it applies to dhammas, it is refuted by the Suttas, which state... With the arising of attentiveness there is the arising ...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:11 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1924

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Common Abhidhamma Argument #2 - Dhammas exist Sutta Reponse: If there was Right View about dhammas, it would be evident that to speak of "existence" and "non-existence" is to misconceive what dhammas are... "By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:48 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1924

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Common Abhidhamma Argument #1 - Mentality and materiality are paramattha dhammas (i.e. ultimate dhammas) Sutta Reponse: Never in the Suttas are materiality referred to as "dhammas". Dhammas are phenomena, whereas materiality is noumena. Instead, materiality is represented in the Sutta via mahabhuta...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:06 am
Forum: Abhidhamma
Topic: The Theravada Abhidhamma with Bhikkhu Bodhi
Replies: 78
Views: 1223

Re: The Theravada Abhidhamma with Bhikkhu Bodhi

Guidelines for the Abhidhamma forum Post by retrofuturist » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:44 am The Abhidhamma and Classical Theravada sub-forums are specialized venues for the discussion of the Abhidhamma and the classical Mahavihara understanding of the Dhamma. Within these forums the Pali Tipitaka and its ...
by DooDoot
Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:34 am
Forum: Abhidhamma
Topic: The Theravada Abhidhamma with Bhikkhu Bodhi
Replies: 78
Views: 1223

Re: The Theravada Abhidhamma with Bhikkhu Bodhi

Dhammavamsa wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:03 pm It is true that Dhamma teachings are clear and can be realised here and now.
No. How many, such as Buddhaghosa, interpret the teachings cannot be realised here & now.