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by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:45 pm
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: What is the meaning of "dhamma" in SN 47.42 ???
Replies: 9
Views: 166

Re: What is the meaning of "dhamma" in SN 47.42 ???

Are Bhikku Bodhi's footnotes helpful? Not really because they appear contrary to how the relevant words are used in sutta. Anyway, I've probably given up on this. SN 47.42 might be one of those quirky suttas without no equivalent put together by the compilers of the SN, where they mix & match the v...
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:15 pm
Forum: Pāli
Topic: Translating "satipaṭṭhānānaṁ" in dative case ???
Replies: 4
Views: 105

Re: Translating "satipaṭṭhānānaṁ" in dative case ???

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:33 pm would leave samudaya and atthangama without a referent.
I thought so. There needs to be a verb involved, i think. Thanks :thanks:
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:24 pm
Forum: Pāli
Topic: Translating "satipaṭṭhānānaṁ" in dative case ???
Replies: 4
Views: 105

Translating "satipaṭṭhānānaṁ" in dative case ???

Dear Pali gurus

Can the following sentence be translated in dative case (instead of genitive case)?
Catunnaṁ, bhikkhave, satipaṭṭhānānaṁ [dative or genitive] samudayañca atthaṅgamañca desessāmi.

https://suttacentral.net/sn47.42/pli/ms
If so, what would the translation be?

Thank you :thanks:
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:20 pm
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: What is the meaning of "dhamma" in SN 47.42 ???
Replies: 9
Views: 166

Re: What is the meaning of "dhamma" in SN 47.42 ???

SN 47.42 also revolves around the terms "samudayo" ("arising") & "atthaṅgamo" ("settling"). Translated by Ven. Sujato & Bodhi, SN 47.42 says: “Catunnaṁ, bhikkhave, satipaṭṭhānānaṁ [dative or genitive] samudaya ñca atthaṅgama ñca desessāmi. “Mendicants, I will teach you the origin and the ending of t...
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:03 pm
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: What is the meaning of "dhamma" in SN 47.42 ???
Replies: 9
Views: 166

Re: What is the meaning of "dhamma" in SN 47.42 ???

asahi wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:00 pm Principles originate from attention.
Manasikārasamudayā dhammānaṁ samudayo;
When focus ends, principles end.”
manasikāranirodhā dhammānaṁ atthaṅgamo”ti.
Principles appears wrong. I will post more soon. :smile:
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:49 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1923

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

asahi wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:38 pm I dont see how or what fault this sutta had
i am starting a new topic on it. :smile: :reading:
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:26 pm
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: What is the meaning of "dhamma" in SN 47.42 ???
Replies: 9
Views: 166

What is the meaning of "dhamma" in SN 47.42 ???

INTRODUCTION Dear DW forum The Pali words " samudayo " ("arising") & " atthaṅgamo " ("settling") are found in many suttas, such as: what is the origin of form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness? Ko ca, bhikkhave, rūpassa samudayo, ko vedanāya samudayo , ko saññāya samudayo, ko saṅkhārā...
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:00 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1923

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

It seems we have a new sect here: secular vada. If you think Naga, Deva, Yakkha, Peta, Niraya, Asuradeva, Asurakaya, Gandhabba, Garula, Pisacha, Amanussa, Brahma, Arupa Brahma,etc don't exist, that is your choice. The above things are not the Heartwood of Buddhism. Without Nibbana, there is no Budd...
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:49 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1923

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

asahi wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:34 am It is about the causes for the origination and cessation of the phenomena upon which the four kinds of mindfulness meditation are grounded.
Satipatthana does not mean "foundations of mindfulness". Satipatthana means "establishing mindfulness".
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:45 am
Forum: Early Buddhism
Topic: How many versions of canonical Theravada Abhidhamma exist?
Replies: 18
Views: 390

Re: How many versions of canonical Theravada Abhidhamma exist?

Some claimed it was a desperate lie. If that is so, then Arahants will not take it as the third Pitakas, if we assumed the Arahants capable to differentiate Dhamma from Adhamma. Blind allegiances to names & schools won't resolve such matters. I, for example, have made many posts from Abhidhamma of ...
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:40 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Did the Buddha use method of "analysis" ???
Replies: 17
Views: 199

Re: Did the Buddha use method of "analysis" ???

Dhammavamsa wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:44 am That would be you. Trying to distort the Suttas as much as you want. In the end, to each his/her own Kamma.
The Buddha's analytical journey is described beginning in SN 12.10; which was unrelated to not-self.
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:02 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1923

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

allow me to use another post to highlight the nonsense of SN 47.42. SN 47.42 says: “Mendicants, I will teach you the origin and the ending of the four kinds of mindfulness meditation. “Catunnaṁ, bhikkhave, satipaṭṭhānānaṁ samudaya ñca atthaṅgamañca desessāmi. The word " samudaya " per SN 22.5 refers...
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:52 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1923

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

Now I see your game, you use suttas randomly to obfuscate the issue at hand, which makes folks think you are an expert in suttas. The content of a sutta has to be used in the context given. You wear me out. Stick to the topic. The topic was the 4 establishments of mindfulness as given in SN 47.42. ...
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:27 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma
Replies: 168
Views: 1923

Re: Retrofuturist's Brief Sutta-Based Refutation of Abhidhamma

retrofuturist wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:54 pm Greetings DooDoot,

It would appear then that you've misconstrued the Sutta, as the Pali for MN1 most certainly makes repeated reference to perception (e.g. saññatvā and sañjānāti)
Definitely not. Saññatvā and sañjānāti are not the unwholesome qualities mentioned in the sutta. :smile:
by DooDoot
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:24 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Two aspects of rupa?
Replies: 28
Views: 303

Re: Two aspects of rupa?

asahi wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:12 am Not so . If due to ignorance arises the fabrication of self notion would be in the second link .
No. If self notion inherently arose at the 2nd link, dukkha would arise at the 2nd link.

:focus: