Newly Joined

[Chew SK]

Friends,

I heard that to achieve Sotapana, one does not require to achieve Jhana first level.
Also heard that this is stated in the one of the sutta .. if so for friends who know, please advise which sutta

[coconut]

Friends,

I heard that to achieve Sotapana, one does not require to achieve Jhana first level.
Also heard that this is stated in the one of the sutta .. if so for friends who know, please advise which sutta

Attaining stream entry path does not require jhana, but attaining the fruit of stream entry requires confirming dependent origination, which means overcoming the 5 hindrances and attaining first jhana in my opinion.

Regardless, all you need to do is

1) Attain path by theoretically properly understanding the four noble truths and dependent origination (which includes the 5 aggregates)
2) Attain fruit by entering first jhana and seeing the drawbacks of the 5 aggregates (impermanent things are suffering, and no self) and that the escape which is that ceasing contact with the 5 aggregates results in less stress and you are happier, aka the noble eightfold path is the escape which means attaining jhanas until you can cease intention and activity.

The suttas call this Dependent Originated and Dependently Originated Phenomena (3 characteristics), when you see this, you have destroyed identity view fetter which is the fruit of stream entry

When a noble disciple has clearly seen with right wisdom this dependent origination and these dependently originated phenomena as they are, it’s impossible for them to turn back to the past, thinking: ‘Did I exist in the past? Did I not exist in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? After being what, what did I become in the past?’ Or to turn forward to the future, thinking: ‘Will I exist in the future? Will I not exist in the future? What will I be in the future? How will I be in the future? After being what, what will I become in the future?’ Or to be undecided about the present, thinking: ‘Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? This sentient being—where did it come from? And where will it go?’ Why is that? Because that noble disciple has clearly seen with right wisdom this dependent origination and these dependently originated phenomena as they are.”

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.20/en/sujato

At Savatthi. "Monks, intention for forms is inconstant, changeable, alterable. Intention for sounds... Intention for smells... Intention for tastes... Intention for tactile sensations... Intention for ideas is inconstant, changeable, alterable.

"One who has conviction & belief that these phenomena are this way is called a faith-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who, after pondering with a modicum of discernment, has accepted that these phenomena are this way is called a Dhamma-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who knows and sees that these phenomena are this way is called a stream-enterer, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

[Chew SK]

Attaining stream entry path does not require jhana, but attaining the fruit of stream entry requires confirming dependent origination, which means overcoming the 5 hindrances and attaining first jhana in my opinion.

What happen when one cannot attain the fruit of stream entry in that life time after entering the stream.
Will one rebirth continue from the stream entry path or otherwise ?

[coconut]

.

What happen when one cannot attain the fruit of stream entry in that life time after entering the stream.
Will one rebirth continue from the stream entry path or otherwise ?

No. The suttas say anyone who attains path will attain fruit before they die. So fruit is guaranteed.

[Chew SK]

Friend,

When one's samsara take place in the human realm, will it be in other worlds system or it has to be back on Earth

[confusedlayman]

Friend,

When one's samsara take place in the human realm, will it be in other worlds system or it has to be back on Earth

whereever there are beings with tendency to do all actions of all levels or any realms where pleasure and pain balanced

[confusedlayman]

.

What happen when one cannot attain the fruit of stream entry in that life time after entering the stream.
Will one rebirth continue from the stream entry path or otherwise ?

No. The suttas say anyone who attains path will attain fruit before they die. So fruit is guaranteed.

that means everyone in this forum or atleast 100 million people/50 years (my assumption) will die as stream enterer as all basic buddhist website says all is impermanent like that.. which is very good news...

[coconut]

.

What happen when one cannot attain the fruit of stream entry in that life time after entering the stream.
Will one rebirth continue from the stream entry path or otherwise ?

No. The suttas say anyone who attains path will attain fruit before they die. So fruit is guaranteed.

that means everyone in this forum or atleast 100 million people/50 years (my assumption) will die as stream enterer as all basic buddhist website says all is impermanent like that.. which is very good news...

No. The Buddha said anyone who adds or subtracts from his teachings has wrong view. There are many people on this forum who have the wrong interpretation of the dhamma.

- Abhidhamma followers
- Vissuddhimagga followers
- Atheist followers
- Nihilist no-self followers
- Jhana deniers
- Mahayana followers

all have wrong view to name a few.

The Buddha said the true dhamma is very subtle and hard to understand. He also said many people who meet the Buddha still reject the true dhamma.

Now imagine 2500 years later when there is no Buddha to meet. Most people have wrong view.

[confusedlayman]

No. The suttas say anyone who attains path will attain fruit before they die. So fruit is guaranteed.

that means everyone in this forum or atleast 100 million people/50 years (my assumption) will die as stream enterer as all basic buddhist website says all is impermanent like that.. which is very good news...

No. The Buddha said anyone who adds or subtracts from his teachings has wrong view. There are many people on this forum who have the wrong interpretation of the dhamma.

- Abhidhamma followers
- Vissuddhimagga followers
- Atheist followers
- Nihilist no-self followers
- Jhana deniers
- Mahayana followers

all have wrong view to name a few.

The Buddha said the true dhamma is very subtle and hard to understand. He also said many people who meet the Buddha still reject the true dhamma.

Now imagine 2500 years later when there is no Buddha to meet. Most people have wrong view.

But how everything impermanent is wrong view.. other things are minor impkrtant

[Dhammanando]

The Buddha said anyone who adds or subtracts from his teachings has wrong view.

Where does the Buddha say this?

[coconut]

The Buddha said anyone who adds or subtracts from his teachings has wrong view.

Where does the Buddha say this?

‘Seeing, one does not see,’ it’s of this that it should be said. Seeing what does one not see? One sees this: a spiritual path endowed with all good qualities, complete in all good qualities, neither too little nor too much, well explained, whole, full, and well propounded. One does not see this: anything that, were it to be removed, would make it purer. One does not see this: anything that, were it to be added, would make it more complete. Thus it is rightly said: ‘Seeing, one does not see.’

https://suttacentral.net/dn29/en/sujato

The Dhamma as the Buddha taught was complete, not incomplete, as he is the highest wisdom. Therefore any attempts at adding or removing from it, is a result of wrong view, which pollutes the true dhamma. You cannot make the Buddha Dhamma more complete.

[coconut]

that means everyone in this forum or atleast 100 million people/50 years (my assumption) will die as stream enterer as all basic buddhist website says all is impermanent like that.. which is very good news...

No. The Buddha said anyone who adds or subtracts from his teachings has wrong view. There are many people on this forum who have the wrong interpretation of the dhamma.

- Abhidhamma followers
- Vissuddhimagga followers
- Atheist followers
- Nihilist no-self followers
- Jhana deniers
- Mahayana followers

all have wrong view to name a few.

The Buddha said the true dhamma is very subtle and hard to understand. He also said many people who meet the Buddha still reject the true dhamma.

Now imagine 2500 years later when there is no Buddha to meet. Most people have wrong view.

But how everything impermanent is wrong view.. other things are minor impkrtant

Knowing about Impermanence and Suffering doesn't mean you know how to escape it.

[Ceisiwr]

No. The suttas say anyone who attains path will attain fruit before they die. So fruit is guaranteed.

that means everyone in this forum or atleast 100 million people/50 years (my assumption) will die as stream enterer as all basic buddhist website says all is impermanent like that.. which is very good news...

No. The Buddha said anyone who adds or subtracts from his teachings has wrong view. There are many people on this forum who have the wrong interpretation of the dhamma.

- Abhidhamma followers
- Vissuddhimagga followers
- Atheist followers
- Nihilist no-self followers
- Jhana deniers
- Mahayana followers

all have wrong view to name a few.

The Buddha said the true dhamma is very subtle and hard to understand. He also said many people who meet the Buddha still reject the true dhamma.

Now imagine 2500 years later when there is no Buddha to meet. Most people have wrong view.

I guess we are lucky you have arrived to show us the way.

[coconut]

I guess we are lucky you have arrived to show us the way.

Is an Ad hominem necessary?

ad hominem
/ad ˈhɒmɪnɛm/
adjective
adjective: ad hominem

(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

[Ceisiwr]

I guess we are lucky you have arrived to show us the way.

Is an Ad hominem necessary?

ad hominem
/ad ˈhɒmɪnɛm/
adjective
adjective: ad hominem

(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

It’s not an ad hom since I never made an argument for it be fallacious in said manner.