Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

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Watana
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Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by Watana »

Oh right, introductions are a thing here...

So, I view myself as a true Buddhist, someone who has no interest in sects and who only cares about the original teachings of the Tathāgata.

I am a rational person, so I don't believe in rebirth etc.

Aside from studying the Pāli Canon to find out what's authentic and what's fake, I like reading seinen manga. I'm also into phonetics.

My favorite mangaka is Junji Itou, a guy who only makes (Lovecraftian) horror stories.

English isn't my mother tongue, I learned it pretty much all by myself when I started reading the Pāli Canon. Back then, I tried to use English for everything : reading books, watching videos, taking notes... I never stopped, so now I guess I'm bilingual (not 100% perfect though).

I will black list anyone whom I find offending, or plain stupid. I already have many names on it.
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by coffeendonuts »

Watana wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:28 amBack then, I tried to use English for everything : reading books, watching videos, taking notes... I never stopped, so now I guess I'm bilingual (not 100% perfect though).
That's really cool. :toast:
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Kim OHara
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by Kim OHara »

Watana wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:28 am So, I view myself as a true Buddhist, someone ... who only cares about the original teachings of the Tathāgata.

... I don't believe in rebirth etc.
At the risk of being added to your blacklist, I have to say that that is like saying you only care about mathematics but don't believe in multiplication or division.

:thinking:
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Watana
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by Watana »

As long as you keep using funny analogies... you're fine !

Now look, if craving (a bunch of hormones in our brains) could alter the entire universe and spawn living sentient beings, this phonemenon would've been discovered by now.

It is true that the Tathāgata sometimes talked about rebirth, but that was just a way for him to convey his teaching on the subject of morality (karma) to the people who believed in such things... just like how he'd talk about attaining Brahma (an unconditioned ultimate reality) and the Soul (also known as "The Imperishable) while talking to brahmins.

The later generations of monks failed to understand that, and so they took everything literally. This is why nibbāna is often described in brahminic terms : unconditioned reality, boundless consciousness, cessation of death and old age, the imperishable etc.
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by Omen »

For those who only have a scholarly interest in Buddhism or are not ambitious about reaching a solid degree of sainthood in this life—being content with only a lesser amount of progress—then not believing in rebirth is totally fine.

If one wants to become a true sotapanna or higher however, I guess they can believe in anything, only as long as they practice the Noble Eightfold Path, as outlined by the Buddha:
"In any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is not found, no contemplative of the first... second... third... fourth order [stream-winner, once-returner, non-returner, or arahant] is found. But in any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is found, contemplatives of the first... second... third... fourth order are found. The noble eightfold path is found in this doctrine & discipline, and right here there are contemplatives of the first... second... third... fourth order. Other teachings are empty of knowledgeable contemplatives. And if the monks dwell rightly, this world will not be empty of arahants." — DN 16
But not believing in rebirth is opposed to the factor of Right View of the Noble Eightfold Path:
Of those, right view is the forerunner [...] And what is the right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions? 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits, and results of good and bad actions. There is this world and the next world. There is mother and father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are contemplatives and brahmans who faring rightly and practicing rightly, proclaim this world and the next after having directly known and realized it for themselves.' This is the right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions. — MN 117
So I guess that not believing in rebirth can be a hindrance at some point on the spiritual journey of the Buddhist Path. If there is actually a next world, then the teachings regarding a next world are wise, and outright discarding them is a blockage for the seeker. But if there is not a next world, then these teachings are useless and you are being benefited by discarding them. Most people can't verify the existence of a next world directly, and we can't be sure that the Buddha really preached about there being a next world, considering that after all these years the original scriptures may have been heavily altered. One who wishes to become a sotapanna should at least make an effort in having faith in the existence of a next world, and from then on try to verify if there really is one or not. If one day he awakens his Dhamma eye and finds that the "next world" is bogus, then the scriptures surely must have been edited. But if the scriptures are right, then he must find out that there is a next world.

It can also be an interpretation problem: maybe "next world" does not refer precisely to there being another place somewhere else that is similar to this world, but is only a metaphor for another thing. I find this unlikely considering that the Buddha gave detailed explanations about other worlds in the suttas(unless of course we also consider these descriptions to be metaphors, or just edited passages). In this unlikely case, then it would be possible to at the same time:

a: be a sotapanna
b: realize there is another world
c: believe there is no such thing as a literal afterlife, otherwordly beings, etc

Anyways, believing, or not believing... only is relevant depending on what your interests are. Do you wish to be a "casual" or a "pro player" in Buddhism? Want to have a pleasant existence, or cease becoming? :thumbsup:


Have a nice stay on the Dhamma Wheel Forum.

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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by DNS »

Watana wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:28 am I am a rational person, so I don't believe in rebirth etc.
I didn't believe in rebirth either, in my past life.

Welcome to DW!
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Watana
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by Watana »

Meh, drugs aren't my thing !

Besides, Junji Itou provides me with enough weird stuff already...
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Watana wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:28 am I am a rational person, so I don't believe in rebirth etc.
It would be more rational to say: "I am a rational person, so I only believe in things based on evidence I have seen."

I am such a person, and after reading the book "Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation" by Ian Stevenson, I decided I could not rationally eliminate the possibility of rebirth. There are skeptical explanations for the events described in the book, but the possibility still remains.
I highly recommend you read the whole book, if you are interested in possible evidence for rebirth.
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Watana
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by Watana »

Nope, thanks !

There are great books on every subject, some of them are so well-written you'd almost start believing that aliens made the Egyptian pyramids.

Also, I know enough about science to assert that hormones can't alter the entire universe, so there you go !
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by Kim OHara »

Every scientist before Copernicus: "I know enough about science to assert that the sun orbits the earth, so there you go !"
Every scientist before Darwin: "I know enough about science to assert that the species we see today have never changed, so there you go !"
...

:coffee:
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by DNS »

Watana wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:01 pm Also, I know enough about science to assert that hormones can't alter the entire universe, so there you go !
I don't know about the entire universe, but then again, none of us do, most world systems are thousands of light years away from us. But for life on earth, yes hormones do effect it, via natural selection, the gene pool, and the rest of the mechanics of biological evolution.
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by coconut »

Didn't you claim to have attained nibbana but still seek pleasure in anime?

If nibbana means anything these days, then yeah sure, I guess everyone is enlightened these days.

Personally I think you're just a huge troll, and I could refute any of your basic atheistic beliefs, but since you have bad faith and are not sincere, you wouldn't learn anything and it would be a waste of time.

Let's just put it simply: you're a puthujjana and you'll never attain right view, you're one of the hopeless ones that the Buddha would have kicked out of the assembly because they pretended to be monks.

Why? because to attain right view one has to be sincere and a person of integrity. Which you are not. Maybe in the next life you will suffer enough to start taking life seriously but by then it will be too late because the odds of being human and alive during the dispensation of a Buddha is virtually zero that the Buddha calls it "a mere coincidence".

Like you I also have a blacklist, but my list is called "hopeless ones", which you're a member of.

So to sum it up, enjoy suffering for eternity in samsara.
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by DooDoot »

Watana wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:28 am I will black list anyone whom I find offending, or plain stupid. I already have many names on it.
Sounds like aversion & mental bondage
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by denise »

do not underestimate Watana ... and of course there are other big hitters.... they have something to teach and you just have to go with their style....some play...some don't ....a blend is nice
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BlackMagic
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Re: Studying pre-Sectarian Buddhism, reading manga and black-listing bad people.

Post by BlackMagic »

Languages

focus on formation and contact at the same time then lose oneself in the middle of two words... this is the proper path to "listening". Rebirth and past life recall isn't important are you the cell or the dirt? I didn't know and I couldn't tell who was clinging to whom even after letting go... if you are to experience it you'll experience it.

Some like to recall "past lives" and walk in and out of them as if dimensia isn't seen as a health issue.

Horror is a good thing; the strange part about it? Is it gets to be redundant it's like there are only so many "womb realm" stories... before it becomes a trope. When sperm don't swim and attack others dn't swim towards the sun; just find that lil tail of yours and get to nibbling, or coil up like a snake and think ima cat at a hole in the year of the fire rat.

I guess all of that is weird; but life is life.. The three baskets are voluminous; those that have never seen them should think three sets of A-Z encyclopedias, interesting that you learned to read using them.

Nimmita should be an interesting topic for you same a preta as far as where parts of those stories come from... sitting there not using 3rd eye jhana they appear where you are, using third eye jhana you appear where they are... it's a weird yin and yang but it seems to work out the karmic kinks or energies as the rounds of cyclic existence arise and pass.

Some try to stay like hide themselves as your pen your refrigerator or even the sound of a paper towel ripping thinking you won't notice or hear what they said... free loaders; hahaha, stop that crap what are you trying to do break it and cost me money you're not fooling anyone.

Anyways welcome to the forum
What has happened; Is that which has yet to come. What will be ...Already is.
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