Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.
User avatar
manas
Posts: 2678
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by manas »

I recall this quote where the Buddha said "do not judge others. Only I, or one like me, is fit to judge..." (please correct this if I recall it wrongly.) I was thinking about this in relation to the notion that 'because the Buddha himself sometimes ridiculed the beliefs of the theistic Brahmins, so too it's fine for us to poke fun at the beliefs of modern-day theists' (no-one has directly said this, but this is what I'm picking up here). But is it, really? The Buddha was the figurehead of a new religion (of sorts), and yes he had a bit to say about the other religions of the time, but I do not think he advocated his followers to engage in such ridicule. I think it was the Buddha's prerogative, but not ours.

Furthermore I wish to again clarify that my comment regarding materialism and reductionism having influenced the perception of what I called 'Western Buddhism' was not directed specifically at anyone here, it was a general issue that, as I pointed out, I even sense in myself.

I'm also hoping that a follower of some other religion doesn't google 'Buddhist forum' and somehow land in the 'Athiest Quotes' section! I think that it would be unfortunate if that was their first impression of our Path. A humble suggestion is that the topic itself be only viewable by members of DW? After all, we are kind of representing the Dhamma (in the virtual sphere), maybe we need to be careful in that regard.

I am growing weary of arguing, and so with metta to all here, Buddhists and non-Buddhists alike, I'm signing off on this one

_/I\_
Last edited by manas on Wed May 02, 2012 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 13515
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by DNS »

No problemo. Thanks for offering your opinions.

All posts in that Atheist quotes thread in the Open Dhamma Hot Topics are reviewed and for the record, there have been some posts that were not approved. Most of you wouldn't know that because it is behind the scenes info among the moderating staff. If a post is a joke and goes too far or is offensive, it is not approved.

Peace to all; all religionists, non-religionists, theists, and atheists.

:meditate:
Buckwheat
Posts: 970
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am
Location: California USA

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Buckwheat »

polarbuddha101 wrote:Well, I guess you have me there, mostly in that the thread falls under idle chatter.
I am an atheist, and I have no problem with 90% of the quotes on the thread. However, there are some quotes that are clearly filled with ill-will, divisiveness, and distortions of the truth. If somebody pretends Gandhi is an atheist, they are either lying or ignorant.

There are many atheists who are just as close minded as the worst Catholic bishops. There are even atheist pedophiles, and on down the line. Atheism is not superior to faith. It is only a chosen belief, and it happens to be my choice as well.

In a discussion with a person of faith, they used this kind of derisive discussion as an argument against atheism. She basically said (paraphrase of her words) atheists seem to be a bunch of assholes, so why would I give up my wonderful church community for that? Which is basically the same argument atheists use against Christians. So, we see two populations talking past each other instead of seeing each other's humanity.

Finally, I have no desire for the discussion to be removed through moderator action. I think the parties involved should practice restraint and only post quotes that are not filled with ill-will, derision, or distortions of truth. And, when such a post is made, it should be allowed for others to point out the folly. In the original board, I made several posts pointing out the folly of certain quotes, and next thing I knew the board was closed. That is NOT what I wanted. I wanted open discussion.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 13515
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by DNS »

The 'board' was never closed. This seems to be a common misconception. The topic simply moved to the Open Dhamma Hot Topics section so that we could moderate the posts so that they remain on topic, not meta-discussion (we have this one and several others for discussing the topic) and not for posts that are inappropriate. If it were not in the Hot Topics section, some posts that are offensive might remain until a moderator logs-in to see it.

As I mentioned previously, there have been posts which were not approved. It is not as if every post is allowed to go through. The offensive ones have been disapproved. As well as those that were off-topic.
Buckwheat
Posts: 970
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am
Location: California USA

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Buckwheat »

Posts indicating that Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson, and Mother Teresa were not in fact atheists are offensive / off-topic?
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 13515
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by DNS »

Buckwheat wrote:Posts indicating that Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson, and Mother Teresa were not in fact atheists are offensive / off-topic?
I am not sure about Gandhi, but the theistic/atheistic views of Thomas Jefferson and Mother Teresa are not conclusive and up for debate. Both have quotes and writings which suggest that they could have been atheist. I am sure you remember the reports from Mother Teresa's diaries after she passed, about the "absent one" etc. and her doubts and how some Christians wanted to even re-think the idea of canonizing her.
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 13515
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by DNS »

Buckwheat wrote:Posts indicating that Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson, and Mother Teresa were not in fact atheists are offensive / off-topic?
The topic is atheist quotes. Again, as mentioned previously there is this topic and several others for discussing the topic in general. That topic is atheist quotes.
User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6636
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Cittasanto »

David N. Snyder wrote:The 'board' was never closed. This seems to be a common misconception.
I am reading this thread with some amusement at the amount of times this has been said.
isn't their a notice shown upon posting a response telling people that the posts are moderated in the "hot topics" section due to the high possibility of it going off topic?

just one question about the Hot topics section can posters start new threads there or do they have to be moved?
sorry for the off topic Q :juggling: :tongue:
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Buckwheat
Posts: 970
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am
Location: California USA

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Buckwheat »

Cittasanto wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:The 'board' was never closed. This seems to be a common misconception.
I am reading this thread with some amusement at the amount of times this has been said.
isn't their a notice shown upon posting a response telling people that the posts are moderated in the "hot topics" section due to the high possibility of it going off topic?

just one question about the Hot topics section can posters start new threads there or do they have to be moved?
sorry for the off topic Q :juggling: :tongue:
Initially, it was closed, and I never got the memo that it was moved because all my posts were off topic. So, I've been a little out of the loop because I haven't been reading these threads.

This still doesn't make sense to me, though. If I want to start a thread telling jokes about how stupid Nevadans are, and I call it a hot topic, then anybody who wants to defend Nevadans has to do it on another, separate thread so as to not interfere with my Nevadan bashing? Doesn't really seem brilliant to me. Just to be cleaer, I have no actual desire to bash Nevadans. I lived in NV for a year.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 13515
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by DNS »

Cittasanto wrote: just one question about the Hot topics section can posters start new threads there or do they have to be moved?
sorry for the off topic Q :juggling: :tongue:
I think new topics could be made there, they would just have to be approved by a mod. Or one could be created in another sub-forum and a member could request it be moved there.
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 13515
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by DNS »

Buckwheat wrote: Initially, it was closed
Cittasanto wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:The 'board' was never closed. This seems to be a common misconception.
I am reading this thread with some amusement at the amount of times this has been said.
Buckwheat wrote: This still doesn't make sense to me, though. If I want to start a thread telling jokes about how stupid Nevadans are, and I call it a hot topic, then anybody who wants to defend Nevadans has to do it on another, separate thread so as to not interfere with my Nevadan bashing? Doesn't really seem brilliant to me. Just to be cleaer, I have no actual desire to bash Nevadans. I lived in NV for a year.
Buckwheat,
Please see the terms of service: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Being disruptive, personal attacks, meta-discussion is not allowed)
User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6636
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi Buckwheat,
IT WAS NEVER CLOSED

it is underlined (by me now) in the part you quote! I am highlighting it as it has been said a few times.

well have you read this thread yet?
The fact of not being able to argue against something doesn't make sense to me either but obviously the op is obviously seen as being quite specific so complaining about it and not posting within the OP & TOS, alternatives, (considering the amount of Atheists/secular quotes out their I am sure there are some,) is like saying I do not celebrate christmas but I will turn up and accept presents and the food, and basically be a mooch and party pooper at a family get together, pointless.
Buckwheat wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:The 'board' was never closed. This seems to be a common misconception.
I am reading this thread with some amusement at the amount of times this has been said.
isn't their a notice shown upon posting a response telling people that the posts are moderated in the "hot topics" section due to the high possibility of it going off topic?

just one question about the Hot topics section can posters start new threads there or do they have to be moved?
sorry for the off topic Q :juggling: :tongue:
Initially, it was closed, and I never got the memo that it was moved because all my posts were off topic. So, I've been a little out of the loop because I haven't been reading these threads.

This still doesn't make sense to me, though. If I want to start a thread telling jokes about how stupid Nevadans are, and I call it a hot topic, then anybody who wants to defend Nevadans has to do it on another, separate thread so as to not interfere with my Nevadan bashing? Doesn't really seem brilliant to me. Just to be cleaer, I have no actual desire to bash Nevadans. I lived in NV for a year.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Buckwheat
Posts: 970
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am
Location: California USA

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Buckwheat »

I tried to post one day, and the thread was locked. Sorry, locked. Maybe that is different than "closed"? That does not matter, it is not my point. Only a statement that through it being temporarily locked I thought it was closed. Doesn't matter, close or not is totally beside the point.

The defense for this thread is to allow open discussion, yet open discussion is not allowed. Just because you say it is allowed does not mean it is allowed, as anybody who dissented had their posts removed. Even a pretty benign post by Kim was removed, while a response to it was allowed to remain. This falls under what I think of as "censorship", but apparently others don't care.

I am now going to ignore any thread with the word atheist in it. Sorry for any confusion or frustration I had a part in.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6636
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Cittasanto »

The posts need approval first, at the end of the day if you want to argue against the quotes why not post quotes of a secular nature which show them as wrong, instead of trying to discuss in a meta-discussion?
I have Christian friends who on occasion say things which are rediculous to me, I don't try to prove them wrong by quoting the Dhammapada, I use the bible, or another christian source to show the error.
BTW I say secular nature as not all of the quotes are atheist quotes some are by non-atheists.
Buckwheat wrote:I tried to post one day, and the thread was locked. Sorry, locked. Maybe that is different than "closed"? That does not matter, it is not my point. Only a statement that through it being temporarily locked I thought it was closed. Doesn't matter, close or not is totally beside the point.

The defense for this thread is to allow open discussion, yet open discussion is not allowed. Just because you say it is allowed does not mean it is allowed, as anybody who dissented had their posts removed. Even a pretty benign post by Kim was removed, while a response to it was allowed to remain. This falls under what I think of as "censorship", but apparently others don't care.

I am now going to ignore any thread with the word atheist in it. Sorry for any confusion or frustration I had a part in.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
User avatar
Polar Bear
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: Bear Republic

Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Polar Bear »

In hindsight I shouldn't have asked what happened to my quotes. :toilet:

before typing anything on this thread watch this and relax...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gCU5uplB4A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
Post Reply