Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Modus.Ponens »

I don't understand what all the comotion is. There is a topic created by Ñana criticizing atheism. Atheism can be criticized there. And there's a topic for atheist quotes (which is far from "stupid Nevadans" bashing). What is the option? Closing the topic and thus censuring atheist quotes? That doesn't make sense.
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta
Buckwheat
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Buckwheat »

Modus.Ponens wrote:I don't understand what all the comotion is. There is a topic created by Ñana criticizing atheism. Atheism can be criticized there. And there's a topic for atheist quotes (which is far from "stupid Nevadans" bashing). What is the option? Closing the topic and thus censuring atheist quotes? That doesn't make sense.
No, I do not want to close the topic. I am an atheist, and that's when I get bothered by other atheists giving my "kind" a bad name. When I attempted fair discussion I was removed by the moderators. I'm not complaining about that, I deserved it because I got angry.

But I would also like to add: Is it possible for someone to believe in God and still be a warm, caring person? Yes, it is. So should we continue making fun of them?
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by DNS »

Buckwheat wrote: Is it possible for someone to believe in God and still be a warm, caring person? Yes, it is. So should we continue making fun of them?
No one suggested otherwise. Not a single poster suggested that a theist could not be a warm, caring person. The only person even raising the question at all is you.

Offensive posts against theists are not approved. It is a thread for quotes related to non-theism / atheism where some may be humorous, some that may be serious, but are directed at the issue, not a person. Interpretation like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by DNS »

Modus.Ponens wrote:I don't understand what all the comotion is. There is a topic created by Ñana criticizing atheism. Atheism can be criticized there. And there's a topic for atheist quotes (which is far from "stupid Nevadans" bashing). What is the option? Closing the topic and thus censuring atheist quotes? That doesn't make sense.
Thanks for that, I agree. The irony in this whole thing is that those opposed to the atheist quotes thread were claiming censorship, when in fact they want the rest of us censored from posting in that thread.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Kim OHara »

David N. Snyder wrote: ... The irony in this whole thing is that those opposed to the atheist quotes thread were claiming censorship, when in fact they want the rest of us censored from posting in that thread.
Hi, David,
That's not quite true, IMHO. What I (and others) have objected to is that posts commenting on specific 'atheist quotes' cannot be posted within that same thread in direct response to the quotes. In every other thread on the board (AFAIK), any post can be replied to. If that thread can be permitted to stay open, then (again IMHO) the same should apply.
I replied - politely enough, I thought - to the OP of Atheist quotes and an (ahem) robust discussion ensued but was (as others have noted) closed down - by restricting posts in that thread strictly to quotes - and comments on quotes were removed.
It is a peculiar situation and one which clearly arouses strong feelings. I don't like it but won't let it affect my participation elsewhere on DW or my respect for the mods who do an excellent job and get little enough thanks for it.

:namaste:
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by DNS »

The last sentence of paragraph 2 of the Terms of Service:
This includes the badmouthing of other Buddhist discussion forums, trolling, meta-discussion (i.e. discussion about discussion), unsubstantiated allegations against members, solicitation of funds and proselytizing.
Meta-discussion is not allowed, although it often occurs (as in this thread) and sometimes as necessary we have allowed some, but in general we try to avoid allowing meta-discussions as they seemingly never end (like this one). :tongue: Sometimes meta-discussion doesn't get reported or it simply remains in some threads because no one has complained about it.

Some threads are meant to be very specific, but that doesn't necessarily negate any discussion as we have seen with this topic as there is this thread and several others discussing the issue of theism, etc.

For example, there is a thread in the lounge called word association game. A post on the significance of the Satipatthana Sutta would obviously be off-topic. That doesn't stop someone from posting on the Satipatthana Sutta elsewhere in another sub-forum.
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Ben
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Ben »

Dear all,

No doubt the existence of the Atheist Quotes thread is provoking a lot of strong feelings. I ask those who object to the presence of the thread to 'step back' and please re-read David's posts. If the content of the post is not for you then I kindly request that you don't read or participate in it. As I said in a reply to Kim, if there are quotes you wish to respond to - feel free to create another thread that critiques the quotes you take issue with.

Have no doubt that we are listening to your concerns - even if from time to time our decisions may be contrary to your wishes. We (the mod/admin team) will continue to discuss the presence of the Atheist Quotes thread amongst ourselves.
All the best,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Buckwheat
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Buckwheat »

David N. Snyder wrote:The irony in this whole thing is that those opposed to the atheist quotes thread were claiming censorship, when in fact they want the rest of us censored from posting in that thread.
That is not true. I said several times that I want the thread to remain open. I just don't want to be silenced when commenting on certain quotes being taken out of context. I would also like to encourage those who post to be very careful about crossing lines into wrong speech, which was prevalent in the first run of the thread and still exists to some extent.
Ben wrote:...feel free to create another thread that critiques the quotes you take issue with.
Excellent. I now see that this was mentioned before, but like I said, I got cut out of the loop on these threads due to the technicalities of how the thread got removed and edited. I felt like an important voice was shut out, but now I see another method is available. Is it allowable for one to add a post to the atheist quotes thread citing a questionable quote and point to the thread with discussion on the context/accuracy of that quote?
Ben wrote:Have no doubt that we are listening to your concerns - even if from time to time our decisions may be contrary to your wishes. We (the mod/admin team) will continue to discuss the presence of the Atheist Quotes thread amongst ourselves.
All the best,

Ben
The moderators are awesome, and generally do a great job. Thanks!!

PS: the "Nevadans" example was not intended as a personal attack. I used to live in Nevada and love it the state. My point was that some of these anti-Christian quotes can seem just as personal and ugly. I don't want to silence anybody, I just want to be able to stand up and say, "Hey, that's kind of rude, dude."
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
danieLion
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by danieLion »

Why would a Buddhist care one way or another about theology?
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Buckwheat »

David N. Snyder wrote:For example, there is a thread in the lounge called word association game. A post on the significance of the Satipatthana Sutta would obviously be off-topic. That doesn't stop someone from posting on the Satipatthana Sutta elsewhere in another sub-forum.
That does make sense. However, if one is in the Sattipatthana thread and makes the statement, "Buddha says mindfulness is really developed by drinking whiskey," then it would not be off-topic for another to stand up and call BS.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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Ben
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Ben »

Hi Buckwheat,
Buckwheat wrote:Is it allowable for one to add a post to the atheist quotes thread citing a questionable quote and point to the thread with discussion on the context/accuracy of that quote?
What I recommend is to grab the link of the post (copy and post the thread title from the post in question), paste it in your post in the new thread with a copy of the contentious post, and then make your case why the quote is misleading. Try and stick to content ie: critiquing the quote and the inappropriateness of the quote to communicate atheist pov rather than spilling into metadiscussion (discussion about the Atheist Quotes thread, commentating on posts on this thread or DW policy). Remembering we have been allowing a full and frank discussion here regarding the Atheist Quotes thread.
I know this solution is not what you would prefer (to comment within the Atheist Quotes thread) but I hope you find it at least an acceptable compromise.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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Buckwheat
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Buckwheat »

That works.

Thanks,
Scott
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Dan74
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Dan74 »

I have ignored both threads until now but fwiw I have seen a kind of a theism bashing/ridicule over the years that I don't find becoming of Buddhists (or anyone really), plus it sometimes ridicules aspects of other religions (like faith) that have parallels with Buddhism.

Under ToS I see
* Badmouthing of other spiritual paths is not allowed.
I didn't go far down that thread when I read this:
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright... Or maybe "stupid" is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone."

Hunter S. Thompson
Is this not badmouthing of other spiritual paths?

I imagine a Christian who is curious about Buddhism checking out this Board. How would he/she feel?

Or imagine checking out a Christian board and seeing a nasty ridicule of the Dhamma?

Perhaps we can do better?
_/|\_
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Ben
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Ben »

Thank you for your input, Dan.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Dan74
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Re: Hot Topics: Atheist Quotes

Post by Dan74 »

No worries, Ben. I really don't want to give you guys more of a headache than you have already and frankly I am not fussed on the subject at all.

Plus I respect the Four Horsemen of the Anti-Apocalypse http://richarddawkins.net/videos/2025-t ... now-on-dvd and what they have to say may be of relevance both to theists and ourselves. I guess it's when it slides into "badmouthing" that it ceases to be useful.

Where and when this line is crossed I am more than happy to leave to your capable hands to determine. :thumbsup:
_/|\_
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