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Bhikkhu Bodhi article in Inquiring Mind

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:26 am
by paddington
I also agree with Spiny Norman. My first posts were engaged by a moderator obviously partial to Bhikkhu Bodhi, and I believe I'm now locked out of the thread without any notice of what I've done wrong or a chance to correct myself. There seems to be some real agenda going here, and I've just arrived. Big Questions.

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:33 am
by DNS
paddington wrote:I also agree with Spiny Norman. My first posts were engaged by a moderator obviously partial to Bhikkhu Bodhi, and I believe I'm now locked out of the thread without any notice of what I've done wrong or a chance to correct myself. There seems to be some real agenda going here, and I've just arrived. Big Questions.
The same arguments were being repeated and the decision was made by another moderator/admin to remove that thread from view due to the circular arguments and since it included disparaging remarks to the ordained members of the Sangha. It was not done by me. The moderator/admin who made this decision was NOT actively involved in that discussion.

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:55 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings paddington,
paddington wrote:I believe I'm now locked out of the thread without any notice of what I've done wrong or a chance to correct myself.
Just a point of note, individual members aren't locked out of individual topics.

Procedurally, topics may be closed or removed from view, based on consensus amongst the moderation group for the kinds of reasons outlined by David above. If a topic is removed from public view, it is not deleted, but rather it is kept in a reference archive available only to staff. This archival storage informs future moderating decisions and gives the moderator group the opportunity to reinstate a topic, if it is deemed relevant to do so in the future.

Therefore, please do not feel individually targeted - your inability to access the topic in question is because the topic has been moved to the staff-only archive forum, and your access in this regard is the same as everyone else's.

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:20 am
by SarathW
Hi Paddington
This is not the first time it happened.
None of us can see that thread anymore. (except moderators)
I am glad that debate is over now!
:)

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:02 am
by Mr Man
David N. Snyder wrote:
paddington wrote:I also agree with Spiny Norman. My first posts were engaged by a moderator obviously partial to Bhikkhu Bodhi, and I believe I'm now locked out of the thread without any notice of what I've done wrong or a chance to correct myself. There seems to be some real agenda going here, and I've just arrived. Big Questions.
The same arguments were being repeated and the decision was made by another moderator/admin to remove that thread from view due to the circular arguments and since it included disparaging remarks to the ordained members of the Sangha. It was not done by me. The moderator/admin who made this decision was NOT actively involved in that discussion.
That one moderator/admin would have the authority to remove a thread which had had such wide spread community interaction without comment or explanation would seem like an extreme use of their privilege.

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:44 am
by Cittasanto
Mr Man wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:
paddington wrote:I also agree with Spiny Norman. My first posts were engaged by a moderator obviously partial to Bhikkhu Bodhi, and I believe I'm now locked out of the thread without any notice of what I've done wrong or a chance to correct myself. There seems to be some real agenda going here, and I've just arrived. Big Questions.
The same arguments were being repeated and the decision was made by another moderator/admin to remove that thread from view due to the circular arguments and since it included disparaging remarks to the ordained members of the Sangha. It was not done by me. The moderator/admin who made this decision was NOT actively involved in that discussion.
That one moderator/admin would have the authority to remove a thread which had had such wide spread community interaction without comment or explanation would seem like an extreme use of their privilege.
They do the best they can in sometimes difficult situations. I think there is room for improvement in areas, but it is not only on the moderation/admin team side.

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:58 am
by tiltbillings
Mr Man wrote:
That one moderator/admin would have the authority to remove a thread which had had such wide spread community interaction without comment or explanation would seem like an extreme use of their privilege.
It was not me, though I found that the thread had become repeative and negative (particularly in regards to Ven Bodhi), covering no new ground. It was a group decision.

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:54 am
by Mr Man
tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
That one moderator/admin would have the authority to remove a thread which had had such wide spread community interaction without comment or explanation would seem like an extreme use of their privilege.
It was not me, though I found that the thread had become repeative and negative (particularly in regards to Ven Bodhi), covering no new ground. It was a group decision.
Thanks for clarifying. From David's earlier comment I had understood that it was the decision of a single moderator.

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:50 pm
by DNS
Mr Man wrote: Thanks for clarifying. From David's earlier comment I had understood that it was the decision of a single moderator.
It was a group decision of the moderators who were available at the time. Sometimes the team cannot wait for all moderators to be online when there are many offending posts in a thread. It is removed from view in an archived area as retro noted. It could still be brought back at some future time when it is cleaned up of the offending posts.

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:43 pm
by paddington
The same arguments were being repeated and the decision was made by another moderator/admin to remove that thread from view due to the circular arguments and since it included disparaging remarks to the ordained members of the Sangha. It was not done by me. The moderator/admin who made this decision was NOT actively involved in that discussion.

Why not remove the disparaging remark(s) instead of shutting the whole thread down? It smells a bit fishy to me, if you don't mind my saying.

Also, why don't the moderators separate their moderator duties from their participation by commenting under another alias? That way they don't artificially inject undue weight or influence behind their personal opinions.

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:18 pm
by paddington
"It was not me, though I found that the thread had become repetative and negative (particularly in regards to Ven Bodhi), covering no new ground. It was a group decision."

Shouldn't Bhikkhu Bodhi's position, especially when he openly acknowledges there is no direct support for it in the Canon, be held up to scrutiny? I agree that there should be respect for his status as a monk, and I apologize if I trod too close to the line, but it ought to be allowed to fire away at his positions. The criticisms of his position all seemed to have some basis in the Canon.

I also noted some repetitive and negative comments directed straight at V. Thanissaro at the beginning of the thread that did not seem to merit intervention.

By the way, I have been looking for the passage of Thanissaro Bhikkhu's excerpted at the beginning of the thread and cannot find it anywhere on the internet. Could you please post a link to the full article?

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:45 pm
by Modus.Ponens
I think the moderation system works just fine.

This is going to sound like a** kissing, but I don't care that much.

Tiltbilling has more posts than anyone in this forum, iirc. He works hard to protect the dhamma in this forum.
Regarding his sharp posts, you have two choices: either get mad, or try to analyse your viewpoints and interpretations of the dhamma better so that you can get closer to the truth. It may be hard, but it's ultimately your choice between these two. And the discussions are usualy informative if the constructive aproach is taken.
What I've seen from the moderation team is a consistent 6-years effort to act in a scrupulous and fair way in their moderation roles. This is a forum of buddhists, not of Buddhas. Imperfections are bound to arise. And conflicts here and there are also bound to arise. But I restate: there has been a consistently scrupulous and fair treatment of the mod team towards the members, in the role of moderators.

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:06 am
by appicchato
One may consider putting themselves into the position of a moderator for a moment...a (basically) thankless, time consuming slog through virtually (if correct) every post...to ride herd on, and weed out, the possibly far flung (out there (of which there are many)) topics, and ((not infrequent) nebulous, ill informed, ignorant, and (occasionally) nasty) responses...to maintain some semblance of civility here...for no financial, material, or any other renumeration (other than the possible personal reward of being of service)...in a perfect world, maybe...but since we're all human (and what that entails)...and in light of Dhamma Wheel's track record...might not kudos, not criticism, be more the order of the day?...
:coffee:

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:18 am
by cooran
appicchato wrote:One may consider putting themselves into the position of a moderator for a moment...a (basically) thankless, time consuming slog through virtually (if correct) every post...to ride herd on, and weed out, the possibly far flung (out there (of which there are many)) topics, and ((not infrequent) nebulous, ill informed, ignorant, and (occasionally) nasty) responses...to maintain some semblance of civility here...for no financial, material, or any other renumeration (other than the possible personal reward of being of service)...in a perfect world, maybe...but since we're all human (and what that entails)...and in light of Dhamma Wheel's track record...might not kudos, not criticism, be more the order of the day?...
:coffee:
Thank you, Bhante.

With metta and respect,
Chris

Re: An active moderator shouldn't enter debate

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:19 am
by SarathW
paddington wrote:The same arguments were being repeated and the decision was made by another moderator/admin to remove that thread from view due to the circular arguments and since it included disparaging remarks to the ordained members of the Sangha. It was not done by me. The moderator/admin who made this decision was NOT actively involved in that discussion.

Why not remove the disparaging remark(s) instead of shutting the whole thread down? It smells a bit fishy to me, if you don't mind my saying.

Also, why don't the moderators separate their moderator duties from their participation by commenting under another alias? That way they don't artificially inject undue weight or influence behind their personal opinions.
Hi Paddington
Buddha asked to collect all the twigs, leaves and sticks and make a raft and cross the floods.
Dhamma Wheel is only anther twig in your raft.
Do not expect to have a perfect raft.
Even the Titanic sank.
Just let it go.
:)
In regard to your point " The moderator/admin who made this decision was NOT actively involved in that discussion."

It is something like you go to a restaurant and ask waiters and the cooks to not to do their job.
:shrug: