Mentally ill

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.
Post Reply
User avatar
Kumara
Posts: 995
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:14 am
Contact:

Mentally ill

Post by Kumara »

Here's a suggestion not to the admins or moderators, but to all users.

One evening, when I was staying with Aj Ganha in his monastery (Wat Pah Subtawee Dhammaram), I was listening to him talking to a group of lay people from Malaysia. He told them,
In monasteries, there are people who are indeed mentally ill. Don't argue with them. If you do, you too become mentally ill.
I thought to myself, "That's such a good advice." Now I think this advice applies to Buddhist web forums too.
coconut
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:10 am

Re: Mentally ill

Post by coconut »

:goodpost:

Yes, and there is a lot of mentally ill people on the web, not just Buddhist web forums. And there's also people who are not mentally ill but are just plain dishonest, intentionally or not, as some people are used to lying so much it's become auto-pilot for them.

I think being aware of how we lie to ourselves is good practice and try to reduce it as much as possible, as it only blocks us from understanding the dhamma.
Then the Blessed One, having left a little bit of water in the water dipper, said to Ven. Rahula, "Rahula, do you see this little bit of left-over water remaining in the water dipper?"

"Yes, sir."

"That's how little of a contemplative[2] there is in anyone who feels no shame at telling a deliberate lie."

Having tossed away the little bit of left-over water, the Blessed One said to Ven. Rahula, "Rahula, do you see how this little bit of left-over water is tossed away?"

"Yes, sir."

"Rahula, whatever there is of a contemplative in anyone who feels no shame at telling a deliberate lie is tossed away just like that."

Having turned the water dipper upside down, the Blessed One said to Ven. Rahula, "Rahula, do you see how this water dipper is turned upside down?"

"Yes, sir."

"Rahula, whatever there is of a contemplative in anyone who feels no shame at telling a deliberate lie is turned upside down just like that."

Having turned the water dipper right-side up, the Blessed One said to Ven. Rahula, "Rahula, do you see how empty & hollow this water dipper is?"

"Yes, sir."

"Rahula, whatever there is of a contemplative in anyone who feels no shame at telling a deliberate lie is empty & hollow just like that.
"In the same way, Rahula, when anyone feels no shame in telling a deliberate lie, there is no evil, I tell you, he will not do. Thus, Rahula, you should train yourself, 'I will not tell a deliberate lie even in jest.'

"What do you think, Rahula: What is a mirror for?"

"For reflection, sir."

"In the same way, Rahula, bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions are to be done with repeated reflection.

"Whenever you want to do a bodily action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily action I want to do — would it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Would it be an unskillful bodily action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it would lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it would be an unskillful bodily action with painful consequences, painful results, then any bodily action of that sort is absolutely unfit for you to do. But if on reflection you know that it would not cause affliction... it would be a skillful bodily action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then any bodily action of that sort is fit for you to do.

"While you are doing a bodily action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily action I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful bodily action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: Mentally ill

Post by Sam Vara »

Kumara wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:28 am Here's a suggestion not to the admins or moderators, but to all users.

One evening, when I was staying with Aj Ganha in his monastery (Wat Pah Subtawee Dhammaram), I was listening to him talking to a group of lay people from Malaysia. He told them,
In monasteries, there are people who are indeed mentally ill. Don't argue with them. If you do, you too become mentally ill.
I thought to myself, "That's such a good advice." Now I think this advice applies to Buddhist web forums too.
That's extremely interesting, and I wonder how far in the spectrum of human behaviours and dispositions the advice holds good for. There are of course those who display a florid incoherence or unshakeable obsession in what they post. Clearly a mental illness. But what about the neurotic: those who seem to need to dominate others; to require constant reassurance; who appear to lack any self-awareness; who personalise the mildest debate; who want to repeat the same banal points; or who seem to want to cultivate an on-line persona at odds with reality?

Meeting in real life with people who have a serious mental illness can be quite disturbing for most people. I wonder whether that same effect occurs online, where they are represented merely by our interpretations of pixels.

Thanks for an interesting point. :anjali:
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Mentally ill

Post by Aloka »

Meeting in real life with people who have a serious mental illness can be quite disturbing for most people. I wonder whether that same effect occurs online, where they are represented merely by our interpretations of pixels.
It can be disturbing if people get insulting or threatening in their online behaviour, which does happen sometimes even in Buddhist forums. Its therefore probably a good idea to also have friendships with other practitioners in non-internet settings in order to remain reasonably "grounded".


:anjali:
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Mentally ill

Post by befriend »

The proper terminology could be applied here more accurately as mentally disturbed. People who suffer from a serious mental illness are usually lucid caring and thoughtful like ordinary people. Unless their having a manic or psychotic break. Ordinary people can also be confused and disturbed. It can be stigmatizing to use the term mentally ill for all disturbed persons.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
coconut
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:10 am

Re: Mentally ill

Post by coconut »

befriend wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:55 pm The proper terminology could be applied here more accurately as mentally disturbed. People who suffer from a serious mental illness are usually lucid caring and thoughtful like ordinary people. Unless their having a manic or psychotic break. Ordinary people can also be confused and disturbed. It can be stigmatizing to use the term mentally ill for all disturbed persons.
Well, everyone has degrees of neurosis, so it's not really untrue to say they are mentally ill. It's only medical mental illness if it passes a certain threshold defined by a consensus and standardized in a manual.
User avatar
Kumara
Posts: 995
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:14 am
Contact:

Re: Mentally ill

Post by Kumara »

befriend wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:55 pm The proper terminology could be applied here more accurately as mentally disturbed. People who suffer from a serious mental illness are usually lucid caring and thoughtful like ordinary people. Unless their having a manic or psychotic break. Ordinary people can also be confused and disturbed. It can be stigmatizing to use the term mentally ill for all disturbed persons.
The point here is not stigmatizing. (Actually, "mentally ill" was a kind term until people started to use it in an 'ill' way.) The point here is not to argue with them.
User avatar
Samana_Johann
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:08 am
Location: Cambodia
Contact:

Re: Mentally ill

Post by Samana_Johann »

There are some things to consider:

1. What is speech which has the intention to harm others and divide other? Such is called: mental ill in the tradition of the Noble ones. That's usual strategy of those looking after maintaining a house of own.
1a. What if such advices, a week before Magha Puja, come from monks directed householder caring for each other?
2. Aside of an Arahat all are considered to be mental ill.
3. A ordinary person, not instructed, dull, whould, lacking proper attention consider healed as mental ill.
4. Sick people might expain why it is usual to care also, "argue", "with" those incapable to be healed.

Some might have great gain if engaging with those who are considered to be not worthy and a danger to common ways. And yes, association is the formost outer reason to stay mental ill or become what fools consider to be wired.

You wouldn't get healed, (or?) would you?

Kayagatasati!
Neither invited nor member of the community here, but the here given as received: Dhamma-dana
User avatar
one_awakening
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:04 am

Re: Mentally ill

Post by one_awakening »

Samana_Johann wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:34 am Aside of an Arahat all are considered to be mental ill.
Yes people who don't have a mental illness and don't consider themselves to be mentally ill are actually mentally ill. The mental illness of ignorance.
“You only lose what you cling to”
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Mentally ill

Post by befriend »

Kumara wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:11 am
befriend wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:55 pm The proper terminology could be applied here more accurately as mentally disturbed. People who suffer from a serious mental illness are usually lucid caring and thoughtful like ordinary people. Unless their having a manic or psychotic break. Ordinary people can also be confused and disturbed. It can be stigmatizing to use the term mentally ill for all disturbed persons.
The point here is not stigmatizing. (Actually, "mentally ill" was a kind term until people started to use it in an 'ill' way.) The point here is not to argue with them.
I was being oversensitive thanks for clarifying venerable.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
Post Reply