limit the influence of secular buddhism

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.

should the influence of secular buddhism be limited on this forum?

yes - explain how
22
67%
no - explain why
11
33%
 
Total votes: 33

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robertk
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by robertk »

there's no shortage of Buddhists who would dearly love to censor, admonish and cut down other Dhamma practitioners and cast them into the wilderness for the thought-crime of understanding matters differently.
When you close topics and suggest the member post on DWE is thst part of this crazed power grab.
Or if one of the mods move a post to the Great Rebirth debate is that casting the idea into the wilderness?

As DNS noted rather than censoring the aim is to keep posts in appropriate sections of the forum. This could mean less posts are deleted - one member has had hundred(s) of his removed from view. Now they might be allowed but moved to a specific thread .
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retrofuturist
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Robert,
robertk wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:43 am When you close topics and suggest the member post on DWE is thst part of this crazed power grab.
Not at all. It's that we moved certain elements of the forum's scope to DWE, due to certain people's emotional inability to abide the presence of such discussions on this forum, and the destructive interpersonal conflicts that arose due to that. You know that. Besides, I'm not quite sure how literally giving away power, as was done by divesting certain aspects of the forum to DWE could ever be construed as a "crazed power grab". :shrug:
robertk wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:43 amOr if one of the mods move a post to the Great Rebirth debate is that casting the idea into the wilderness?
To my mind, that probably depends on whether it's on-topic or whether it's genuinely off-topic... just as the above example of DWE vs DWT topics was determined by whether it's in the scope of this forum or not.

But since it's DNS's change, you'd be best to seek clarification from him on how it works in practice. I assume such considerations would have been front of mind for you when supporting the change, so I'm not sure what asking me after the event will achieve.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
BrokenBones
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by BrokenBones »

Hi Paul

You are correct... but I wasn't actually born in 2018 so I have a little bit longer life experience on which to draw from than the last 2/3 years 😀
The important words in your post are 'openly' and 'respectfully' and I recognise we are all guilty of failing in this respect at some time or other... such failings shouldn't become a modus operandi.
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retrofuturist
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Aloka,
Aloka wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:22 am :goodpost:
Aloka wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:26 am :goodpost: :clap:
Thank you. Coming from someone such as yourself with extensive experience on both sides of the admin/member divide at Buddhist forums, that means a lot to me.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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mikenz66
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by mikenz66 »

DNS wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:09 am
3.j. Excessive posting against core Theravada principles, including kamma, rebirth, the awakening of the Buddha will not be allowed except in great rebirth thread and other topics where it may be on-topic, but not in other areas of the forum.
Thank you. That's a very positive move, which I hope willl improve the Forum.

:heart:
Mike
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Aloka
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by Aloka »

retrofuturist wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:39 am Greetings Aloka,
Aloka wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:22 am :goodpost:
Aloka wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:26 am :goodpost: :clap:
Thank you. Coming from someone such as yourself with extensive experience on both sides of the admin/member divide at Buddhist forums, that means a lot to me.

Metta,
Paul. :)
You're very welcome. Paul. :)

with metta,

Aloka :heart:
TRobinson465
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by TRobinson465 »

retrofuturist wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:08 am Greetings,
BrokenBones wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:13 am I don't see it quite as grim as that.
I see from your member ID that you've been a member here since 2018. As such, you've never had to concern yourself with the purges here in 2014/15, nor presumably prior to that at E-Sangha in 2007/08 where Dharma policing and the insta-banning of anyone who understood the Dharma differently to the chief administrator, was institutionalized as part of the forum culture.

Do not take for granted the freedoms that you have to discuss the Dhamma here at DWT. It's understandable that you may not recognise or understand the hard-fought battles that took place (nor the friendships lost) which gave you that freedom, but it would be wrong to think such freedoms occur organically and naturally just because you have "Buddhists" in charge.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and as this topic itself has shown, there's no shortage of Buddhists who would dearly love to censor, admonish and cut down other Dhamma practitioners and cast them into the wilderness for the thought-crime of understanding matters differently. As for me, I believe it's best if people can openly and respectfully share their opinions with one another and then individuals can make up their own mind on what is correct, relevant and true... but then, I guess I think differently. :smile:

Metta,
Paul. :)
I understand your concerns. But this isn't a new government that needs to be shackled to prevent tyranny. Even the Buddha himself made rules and changed and rescinded them as needed. Now, can we trust the changing roster of admins judgement as much as the enlightened one? Of course not. But I assume there are some checks and balances in place administration wise since you had to debate and vote on it. I also think the rule, even if it was applied to other core tenets of buddhism that you may not think are core, is quite lenient. Since it only talks about "excessive" posting and only talks about moving the discussion rather than shutting it down entirely.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Mkoll
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by Mkoll »

mikenz66 wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:44 am
DNS wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:09 am
3.j. Excessive posting against core Theravada principles, including kamma, rebirth, the awakening of the Buddha will not be allowed except in great rebirth thread and other topics where it may be on-topic, but not in other areas of the forum.
Thank you. That's a very positive move, which I hope willl improve the Forum.

:heart:
Mike
Agreed.

:coffee:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Bundokji
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by Bundokji »

I think excessive protection can be counter productive. The teachings are subtle and difficult to see. Debating and being exposed to different interpretations help the practitioner to evaluate and refine his/her own views.

The added article to the ToR will hopefully make everyone happy. It is a continuation of a good balance that already exists in my opinion.

With gratitude :anjali:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Eko Care
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by Eko Care »

salayatananirodha wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:20 am "Dhamma Wheel
A Buddhist discussion forum on the Dhamma of Theravāda Buddhism"
people who are aggressively pushing anti-rebirth views all over the forum should be limited.
DNS wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:09 am 3.j. Excessive posting against core Theravada principles, including kamma, rebirth, the awakening of the Buddha will not be allowed except in great rebirth thread and other topics where it may be on-topic, but not in other areas of the forum.
Appreciated.
Now the man doesn't come to my home to meet my wife. Nevertheless, he'll meet her at the toilet.
Anyway, Appreciated.
robertk wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:52 am
TRobinson465 wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:26 am
DNS wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:09 am 3.j. Excessive posting against core Theravada principles, including kamma, rebirth, the awakening of the Buddha will not be allowed except in great rebirth thread and other topics where it may be on-topic, but not in other areas of the forum.

I think this was a well thought out rule. including "excessive" in there was a nice touch because it gives leniency to people who just post one offs and aren't in your face hounding people about it, which i think was the main thing that got people annoyed.
yes, I thought that was very well thought out as well.
I was also a yea and I would like to thank everyone on this thread for their input - especially salayatananirodha who made the initial suggestion with a detailed opening post and further follow up.
As the Suggestions forum says " Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen."
Appreciated.
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DooDoot
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by DooDoot »

Eko Care wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:35 pm
DNS wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:09 am 3.j. Excessive posting against core Theravada principles, including kamma, rebirth, the awakening of the Buddha will not be allowed except in great rebirth thread and other topics where it may be on-topic, but not in other areas of the forum.
Obviously the above requires discernment (panna) instead of censorship of the suttas (such as MN 148). But then, yes, "Theravada" is the Doctrine of the (self-proclaimed) Elders rather than the Doctrine of the Buddha.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Eko Care
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by Eko Care »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:38 am But then, yes, "Theravada" is the Doctrine of the (self-proclaimed) Elders rather than the Doctrine of the Buddha.
DNS wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:09 am .. Excessive posting against core Theravada principles ...
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DooDoot
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by DooDoot »

Eko Care wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:47 am
DooDoot wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:38 am But then, yes, "Theravada" is the Doctrine of the (self-proclaimed) Elders rather than the Doctrine of the Buddha.
DNS wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:09 am .. Excessive posting against core Theravada principles ...
"Excessive" posting does not mean "one single" post on the subject of "Theravada" vs "Buddhavada". :roll:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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retrofuturist
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Re: limit the influence of secular buddhism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
DooDoot wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:50 am "Excessive" posting does not mean "one single" post on the subject of "Theravada" vs "Buddhavada". :roll:
And you've neatly illustrated how the changes are subject to potential abuse, given the subjectivity by which someone may choose to regard something as being "core" to Theravāda.

If anyone feels the execution of the new Terms of Service element is being applied incorrectly, please let staff know and we shall investigate.

Until then, the suggestion that spawned this topic has already been addressed by way of this Terms Of Service change, and having been addressed, it can now be closed.

Thank you everyone for your time and input.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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