I do not give a rat’s tookus what theists believe, except when they insist that I believe the way they do.binocular wrote:But why expect those who claim to believe in God to provide such explanations or demand such explanations from them?tiltbillings wrote:Being without an ability to meaningfully explain anything, what purpose does the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent, permanent, independent, unique cause of the cosmos serve? The Buddha certainly saw no value in a god idea in terms of liberation, of awakening.
One needs not try to disprove the existence of an omniscient, omnipotent, permanent, independent, unique cause of the cosmos for two reasons: It cannot, by its believers, be shown in any definitive way to exist, and it does not explain anything when pushed beyond superficial statements.
But we are talking here about the market place of ideas, where god ideas get presented by god believers as a good set of ideas and then these god ideas can be looked at to see what questions such ideas can reasonably answer, if any, in debate and dialogue with god believers.
This is a straw-man construction. I would certainly not expect an answer be presented in a vacuum. Certainly a lot of theists think that their god ideas are timeless, universal, and applicable here, there and everywhere. And many theists put their god ideas out there as if they are universally applicable, trumping all else, and if such god ideas are put out there by theists, they are certainly open to examination and challenge. Why wouldn’t they be? As for context, it is up to the god believers who are pushing their notions of a god, to give the appropriate contexts, inasmuch as they may or may not be important when such ideas are, in turn, challenged."The idea of an omniscient, omnipotent, permanent, independent, unique cause of the cosmos cannot explain anything in a meaningful way" _to whom_?And those who buy into the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent, permanent, independent, unique cause of the cosmos, when pushed to show what god explains, will almost invariably resort some such dodge as "God is beyond our understanding," "God works in mysterious ways," etc., which is another of saying that the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent, permanent, independent, unique cause of the cosmos cannot explain anything in a meaningful way.
Explanations don't somehow exist in a vacuum, independently of people and their minds, their intentions.
Something can be explained in a meaningful way only to a particular person, at a particular time and other circumstances.
Verbally the same explanation may be meaningful to one person, but nonsense to another.
I find it strange when people demand an explanation that would stand per se, on its own, regardless of anyone, in a vacuum.
That is more a theist lament. Also, importantly, praying for the return to health of a loved one in a dire situation is hardly a whim. Again, with this "whim" business you are presenting a straw-man argumentation. You might want to back up and try this again. There are serious questions raised here that you have just blown right over, or do not understand.And atheist arguments to the effect of "My aunt had cancer. People prayed for her. She died anyway. Therefore, God does not exist / God is not worth believing in." are evidence of that outlook of "God ought to fulfill my every whim."tiltbillings wrote:That is, of course, assuming that one demands from the supposed god that every whim be fulfilled,
That it is beyond you indicates a lack of understanding of the subject at hand. God. Ask god. And how does one ask god anything? A lot of people claim to talk to god and that god talks to them, but god can say very different things to different people about the same thing. “Kill those heathens.” “Love those folks.” I’d love to talk with god. You have god’s telephone number, e-mail address, snail-mail address?Questions should be directed directly to the person whose answers one wishes to obtain. In this case, to God himself.and there is, of course, no reason to assume that that is a necessity in questioning the whys and wherefores of the supposed god. On the other hand it is not unreasonable for the supposed god's creations to ask of the supposed god why it created the way it did.
Why some people demand answers about God, but seek those answers from anyone but God, is beyond me.