If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

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cooran
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If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

Next time someone says women aren't victims of harrassment, show them this!
http://m.tickld.com/x/next-time-someone ... -show-them

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
sattva
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by sattva »

Thanks for sharing this, Chris!
http://www.chatzy.com/25904628501622
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Pax
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by Pax »

That was excellent, thank you.
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Kim OHara
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by Kim OHara »

I saw that on FB recently - must be doing the rounds.
And yes, it is good. It doesn't reflect my own demographic particularly well, but arty-greenie-lefties probably aren't the biggest problem area. :tongue:

:coffee:
Kim
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Cittasanto
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi
Some serious questions, or points about that cartoon strip.
It is my understanding that Abortion can be an emotionally and physically horrific experience, and some protection needs to be there for impulsive people who may of rushed in, or coerced "seekers" of the procedure. Not to mention Abortion is a medical procedure and beds are not always available for everyone at any time they happen to want, because complications can happen and adequate care is needed for those in the care of the medical staff.

I would like to know what the link between an unaccompanied woman and a man being called whipped is? isn't that more of an example of a man in a possibly abusive relationship, and others making light of it as a way to avoid seeing it?

What % is "not all men"? and what % actually act in the negative way this cartoon strip depicts?

I could comment more but....

Kind Regards
Cittasanto
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

I wanted to comment on this cartoon strip this morning, but I felt my words would have been too hasty. This in my eyes, merely reinforces the 'victim/aggressor' stereotype. It perpetuates the 'us and them' impression that this so-called 'battle of the sexes' has engendered over the decades. It disturbs me that so much emphasis is put on the 'poor little me' woman, when in fact, both physical and verbal abuse exist in our society, which goes from women to men, too.

Instead of pleading this kind of equality, women in the West would spend their time better looking to other nations where equality for women is still a total unrealistic fantasy; those nations where rape and torture are considered socially acceptable and go unpunished, and those cultures which still practise female genital mutilation as a matter of course.

If you really want to cry "Equality for women" try looking further than the egotistical back yard that is the dark and negative face of emancipation. Women in the West have it pretty good now. While it's not perfect, some responsibility has to be taken by the women themselves.
If ladies in general behaved more like ladies, gentlemen in general might treat them with more consideration. The cry and demand for equality, while admirable in many ways, has also succeeded in blurring boundaries to such a degree, that many men are completely unsure of how to approach women due to the fear of possible repercussions. Women have become more aggressive, assertive and strident in their desire to be treated as equals, that to treat a woman with courtesy and chivalry, has become something of a game of Russian Roulette.

And I would add that such treatment of women in the UK is virtually unheard of. Sexual discrimination is now evident only to an almost imperceptible degree. In fact, present during a discussion among some men, where one guy was actually being quite insulting in his jokes about women, at least three of his companions turned on him and basically tore him a new one.
:namaste:

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Alex123
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by Alex123 »

As if some women do not abuse men.
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by sattva »

Please forgive me before I begin for any discord this response may receive. I think Cooran (Chris) really wanted to be heard, without the need as many women have, to defend herself, to get in a long heated discussion. She wanted to be heard. This is her truth. I have had cases in the past when I was younger that this was my truth, as well. Have I gone out of my way to avoid a group of men standing somewhere, ---absolutely. Getting older is difficult as well. You become invisible. I think this is especially true of women.

Do I think that some men aren't abused, ---no. I know they are. Do I think that treating each other with kindness and consideration is the most important thing, of course. Kindness and respect is a trump card. If you treat everyone with kindness and respect, then you open the door for anyone who may need help and you don't yell sexual words at them, or go off in profanity because you don't like something that they did. I think on the whole here in the United States that many young males and females have not developed those qualities. Mass media and lack of parental input has created a hostile environment for people in general. Even as I say that, I am always amazed at the kindnesses I see in others. It is still there somewhere, inside of people, waiting to be aroused.

Lastly, do you realize that women, on this website are a minority? You can question or debate the reason why, but that is the reality. When someone who has contributed so much to this board like Cooran has something to say. It would be nice just to listen and show support for her reality. Just saying....
http://www.chatzy.com/25904628501622
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Mkoll
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by Mkoll »

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:I wanted to comment on this cartoon strip this morning, but I felt my words would have been too hasty. This in my eyes, merely reinforces the 'victim/aggressor' stereotype. It perpetuates the 'us and them' impression that this so-called 'battle of the sexes' has engendered over the decades. It disturbs me that so much emphasis is put on the 'poor little me' woman, when in fact, both physical and verbal abuse exist in our society, which goes from women to men, too.

Instead of pleading this kind of equality, women in the West would spend their time better looking to other nations where equality for women is still a total unrealistic fantasy; those nations where rape and torture are considered socially acceptable and go unpunished, and those cultures which still practise female genital mutilation as a matter of course.

If you really want to cry "Equality for women" try looking further than the egotistical back yard that is the dark and negative face of emancipation. Women in the West have it pretty good now. While it's not perfect, some responsibility has to be taken by the women themselves.
If ladies in general behaved more like ladies, gentlemen in general might treat them with more consideration. The cry and demand for equality, while admirable in many ways, has also succeeded in blurring boundaries to such a degree, that many men are completely unsure of how to approach women due to the fear of possible repercussions. Women have become more aggressive, assertive and strident in their desire to be treated as equals, that to treat a woman with courtesy and chivalry, has become something of a game of Russian Roulette.

And I would add that such treatment of women in the UK is virtually unheard of. Sexual discrimination is now evident only to an almost imperceptible degree. In fact, present during a discussion among some men, where one guy was actually being quite insulting in his jokes about women, at least three of his companions turned on him and basically tore him a new one.
:goodpost:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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cooran
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by cooran »

sattva wrote:Please forgive me before I begin for any discord this response may receive. I think Cooran (Chris) really wanted to be heard, without the need as many women have, to defend herself, to get in a long heated discussion. She wanted to be heard. This is her truth. I have had cases in the past when I was younger that this was my truth, as well. Have I gone out of my way to avoid a group of men standing somewhere, ---absolutely. Getting older is difficult as well. You become invisible. I think this is especially true of women.

Do I think that some men aren't abused, ---no. I know they are. Do I think that treating each other with kindness and consideration is the most important thing, of course. Kindness and respect is a trump card. If you treat everyone with kindness and respect, then you open the door for anyone who may need help and you don't yell sexual words at them, or go off in profanity because you don't like something that they did. I think on the whole here in the United States that many young males and females have not developed those qualities. Mass media and lack of parental input has created a hostile environment for people in general. Even as I say that, I am always amazed at the kindnesses I see in others. It is still there somewhere, inside of people, waiting to be aroused.

Lastly, do you realize that women, on this website are a minority? You can question or debate the reason why, but that is the reality. When someone who has contributed so much to this board like Cooran has something to say. It would be nice just to listen and show support for her reality. Just saying....
Well said, sattva! :group:

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Sokehi
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by Sokehi »

cooran wrote:
sattva wrote:Please forgive me before I begin for any discord this response may receive. I think Cooran (Chris) really wanted to be heard, without the need as many women have, to defend herself, to get in a long heated discussion. She wanted to be heard. This is her truth. I have had cases in the past when I was younger that this was my truth, as well. Have I gone out of my way to avoid a group of men standing somewhere, ---absolutely. Getting older is difficult as well. You become invisible. I think this is especially true of women.

Do I think that some men aren't abused, ---no. I know they are. Do I think that treating each other with kindness and consideration is the most important thing, of course. Kindness and respect is a trump card. If you treat everyone with kindness and respect, then you open the door for anyone who may need help and you don't yell sexual words at them, or go off in profanity because you don't like something that they did. I think on the whole here in the United States that many young males and females have not developed those qualities. Mass media and lack of parental input has created a hostile environment for people in general. Even as I say that, I am always amazed at the kindnesses I see in others. It is still there somewhere, inside of people, waiting to be aroused.

Lastly, do you realize that women, on this website are a minority? You can question or debate the reason why, but that is the reality. When someone who has contributed so much to this board like Cooran has something to say. It would be nice just to listen and show support for her reality. Just saying....
Well said, sattva! :group:

With metta,
Chris
Very good post indeed :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi Sattva
sattva wrote:Please forgive me before I begin for any discord this response may receive. I think Cooran (Chris) really wanted to be heard, without the need as many women have, to defend herself, to get in a long heated discussion. She wanted to be heard. This is her truth. I have had cases in the past when I was younger that this was my truth, as well. Have I gone out of my way to avoid a group of men standing somewhere, ---absolutely. Getting older is difficult as well. You become invisible. I think this is especially true of women.
I hope this would be more harmonious discourse rather than discord. But I wonder if agreement is the only way that being heard (in this case) would be seen as acceptable? I would hope not, and that all responders actually considered what was shared fully, rather than simply agreeing based on similarity to preference, bias, or preconceived notions. I remember going to a training center where I was the only male student. oh the fond memories of being sat there while the women of varying ages decided it was a good idea to start complaining about men.
Do I think that some men aren't abused, ---no. I know they are. Do I think that treating each other with kindness and consideration is the most important thing, of course. Kindness and respect is a trump card.
When you say this I am reminded of an observation about the comic strip I made.
Cittasanto wrote:I would like to know what the link between an unaccompanied woman and a man being called whipped is? isn't that more of an example of a man in a possibly abusive relationship, and others making light of it as a way to avoid seeing it?
underline added.

Lastly, do you realize that women, on this website are a minority? You can question or debate the reason why, but that is the reality. When someone who has contributed so much to this board like Cooran has something to say. It would be nice just to listen and show support for her reality. Just saying....
I look at posts on the merits of the post, not the poster. Someones sex, race... make no difference, something of worth and something worthless can come from anyone, although some are more prone to one more than the other, and that can only be in certain topics. Or should some special protection be afforded to posts because of the poster?
As I said in the beginning I hope agreement is not the only form of hearing that is acceptable.
And finally an opinion (which I see here as we all share the same reality, but how we see it can be different)is something we all can have, but that doesn't mean any and every opinion is warranted, or worth protecting. Climate change deniers are generally scientifically illiterate, they have opinions should their opinion be given equal weight to that of researchers when the errors have and can be pointed out?

Kind Regards
Cittasanto
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by mikenz66 »

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote: And I would add that such treatment of women in the UK is virtually unheard of. Sexual discrimination is now evident only to an almost imperceptible degree.
It's certainly become much less acceptable to openly discriminate so perhaps it is technically correct to say that it "now evident only to an almost imperceptible degree."

I think that the reality of what women experience is somewhat different.

:anjali:
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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by Sokehi »

It is not my right or ability to describe or critise the perception of others. So I assume it is not able for man to really know what women experience.

In everyday life I try to practice "abhaya", fearlessnes - to make this a gift. In many cases this is possible. As a man for example it is possible make this as a gift too towards women. For example at nighttime walking behind a woman might be frightening to her. So often I either pass by or change the side of the street for example. :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: If someone says women aren't victims of harrassment ....

Post by SDC »

sattva wrote:Lastly, do you realize that women, on this website are a minority? You can question or debate the reason why, but that is the reality. When someone who has contributed so much to this board like Cooran has something to say. It would be nice just to listen and show support for her reality. Just saying....
And they became even more of minority after a previous discussion of this sort because both men and women cascaded into that thread and became super aggressive with one another leaving many women deeply offended. Sadly some great members were lost after that event took place. I figured a lesson was learned that topics such as these cannot just be posted with the expectation that men will just listen as opposed to trying to defend themselves. That just doesn't happen here on dhammawheel.
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