booze for friends

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vacvvm
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booze for friends

Post by vacvvm »

Hi All! here's a silly story
I've only been following the 5 precepts for about 8 months now, and still working out a few details for myself. Quitting drinking hasn't been difficult at all, but I've been puzzling over what do do with my liquor cabinet, which includes several bottles I had bought specifically to give as gifts. I read some threads and it seems near consensus here that the stuff is no good for anybody and should be destroyed, but I find it hard to bring myself to pour it down the drain when I know my broke friends are going to keep buying it and drinking it anyway.
So while it's gathering dust as I deliberate, a funny thing happened tonight- I was at a bar with a couple friends, which is extremely unusual for me, drinking my lemonade, and by chance it happened to be bingo night, which if you're unfamiliar is a "game" requiring absolutely no skill, 100% luck. And I won, the prize was basically a round of drinks, but not realizing there was a limit everyone ordered cocktails (except me of course) and we exceeded the limit, not wanting to make a complicated scene I paid the difference. Basically, I accidentally bought everyone drinks, I dont think I violated a precept anywhere, I know my intention was never to provide alcohol to anyone, but I did feel like I was walking a very thin line!
Doin my best to do right.
How did you guys handle these issues when you first took up the precepts?
SarathW
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Re: booze for friends

Post by SarathW »

I think Buddha said not to drink alcohol and not to sell. (own a liquor shop as it is wrong lively hood)
When I do business dealings I have to entertain people and offer alcohol.
This is not strictly a good practice but I am operating within the limits provided for a lay person.
Now I do not have parties at my home, instead I invite them for a meditation session.
But I have problems when I have to invite non-Buddhist friends.
It is gradual training take one step at a time.
The most important thing is you have the right view.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: booze for friends

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

I have become pretty much a teetotaler given my past with alcohol and the fact that I tend to be very black and white when it comes to the Five PRecepts (this is not necessarily a good thing, just how I have picked them up and practiced them). In my case, I threw out all of my alcohol when I began to seriously practice. Also, I will occasionally receive a bottle as a gift from someone and, rather than re-gift it, I prefer to dispose of it myself. SO, that's one way of dealing with the fifth precept among a myriad of others. Regardless, it is great to see a fellow Dhamma-farer working this out. Every good blessing to you!
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
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Spiny Norman
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Re: booze for friends

Post by Spiny Norman »

vacvvm wrote:Doin my best to do right.
It sounds to me like you're dealing with this issue in a considered and responsible way. I've given alcohol to people in the past, I figure they'd buy it themselves anyway, so no harm done.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Aloka
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Re: booze for friends

Post by Aloka »

vacvvm wrote: How did you guys handle these issues when you first took up the precepts?
When I first took the precepts I was a Tibetan Buddhist. I didn't drink alcohol but I was quite a heavy smoker at the time.

I was eager to take the 5 precepts for life in an official ceremony with a high lama. However, my other Tibetan teacher told me just to take them for a month to begin with. It was a wise suggestion, because I had a huge struggle trying to give up smoking immediately.

However, there came a time when I was able to do it without much effort. So I think its probably best to just keep practising and doing one's best, while using them as wise guidelines. They're not like the ten commandments. Nobody will smite us from above, but an addled brain from drugs or booze, liver damage, or lung cancer will certainly affect us. The same applies to giving them to others.

:anjali:
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Ben
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Re: booze for friends

Post by Ben »

I havent had a drink for many years now.
However, my wife is not a Buddhist and enjoys a wine. We occasionally get given a bottle or two and I now have, inadvertently, collected a small cellar of increasingly valuable wine. Some of the wine I use in cooking and allow the cooking to burn off the alcohol. Some of it my wife serves to guests and the rest gathers dust.
Kind regards,
Ben
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m0rl0ck
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Re: booze for friends

Post by m0rl0ck »

Alcohol is a drug and a poison. If i were providing people alcohol i would consider it a violation of the non harming precept.
• Nearly 4% of all deaths are related to alcohol. Most alcohol-related deaths are caused by alcohol result from injuries, cancer, cardiovascular diseases and liver cirrhosis.

• 6.2% of male deaths are related to alcohol, compared to 1.1% of female deaths.

• 320 000 young people aged 15-29 years die annually, from alcohol-related causes, resulting in 9% of all deaths in that age group.

• Almost 50% of men and two-thirds of women do not consume alcohol.

• Harmful alcohol use is one of four common risk factors, along with tobacco use, poor diet and physical inactivity, for the four main groups of noncommunicable diseases (NCDs) – cardiovascular diseases, cancer, chronic lung diseases and diabetes.

• Alcohol is the world's third largest risk factor for disease burden; it is the leading risk factor in the Western Pacific and the Americas and the second largest in Europe.

The harmful use of alcohol is also associated with several infectious diseases like HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis and sexually transmitted infections (STIs). This is because alcohol consumption weakens the immune system, reduces inhibitions, affects judgment and has a negative effect on patients' adherence to antiretroviral treatment.

Alcohol Impact Measured in Potential Years of Life Lost Due to Premature Death:

As part of the research, the following chart from the Global Health Risks report compares the top global health concerns using the disability-adjusted life year (DALY). DALY extends the concept of potential years of life lost due to premature death to include equivalent years of "healthy" life lost by virtue of being in states of poor health or disability.

As you can see below, of 19 health concerns, alcohol is ranked #3, and is greater than unsafe water, high blood pressure, tobacco, obesity and illicit drugs (ranked #18).
http://ncadd.org/index.php/in-the-news/ ... e-annually" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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SDC
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Re: booze for friends

Post by SDC »

I'm pretty much in Ben's situation in that my wife still likes to drink occasionally and 'fields' any of the gifted alcohol (friends and family know I do not drink and would never give it to me anyway). As far as your personal stock goes...I don't know. There is not much that can be done aside from tossing it that would not be contributing to others using it. So even though it feels wrong I would just dump it.

Or, why not box it so it is not available for use? Just bury it somewhere in a closet or basement - that way you don't feel like you're disrespecting friends but on the other side you are not allowing the alcohol to due further damage to others. Obviously this is only an option if you are sure that you would not ever be tempted to use it again; a tough thing to guarantee.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
daverupa
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Re: booze for friends

Post by daverupa »

vacvvm wrote:I find it hard to bring myself to pour it down the drain when I know my broke friends are going to keep buying it and drinking it anyway.
I picture you standing over a sink, holding a bottle of liquor, and thinking "since my friends are going to keep buying alcohol, I can't pour this out" - but it makes no sense to me...
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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samseva
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Re: booze for friends

Post by samseva »

You could pour it in the drain, although it wouldn't be too good for the environment. And by giving it to your friends, it will probably encourage them to drink more, since it is free alcohol.

An alternative would be to give it to a local restaurant. Even though the alcohol was given, it will make no difference regarding if or how much customers order alcoholic drinks. By doing so, the restaurant would need to buy less liquor, a little less alcohol would need to be produced, a small amount of pollutants would be avoided, the restaurant would make a little more money and you get rid of your alcohol.
SarathW
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Re: booze for friends

Post by SarathW »

Pouring alcohol in the drain or giving to someone not going to reduce the alcohol production.
I think best think is to refuse to accept alcohol as a gift.
My employer used to give alcohol for as a Christmas gfit.
I do not give alcohol as gifts any more.
Now I ask them to give me some Ginger Beer.

I still entertain people with alcohol.
I have to consider Morlock's advise.

:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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vacvvm
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Re: booze for friends

Post by vacvvm »

I know that ultimately any question of "how good should I be" is answered by the buddha "completely and absolutely!" and that if you follow any question like this far enough you lead to renunciation and monkhood. there's really no other way to be 100% karma-clean. So unless we do that, we each find the maximum we feel capable of, knowing that there's more that could be done, and accepting the consequences. But being relatively new to this, I'm still finding it hard to balance the guilt of not going 100%. I've never been much of a meat eater, I order it sometimes in restaurants, but do I need to go 100% there too?? The most-correct answer is always "YES!", but keep saying yes and I'll end up in robes. and maybe I will! Who knows. I know everyone who studies the dhamma has to consider these questions and decide where to stand, but whatever the decision it's best to have right understanding with it and not fool ourselves with justifications.
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vacvvm
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Re: booze for friends

Post by vacvvm »

This seems to be a somewhat common process though, a period following discovery of the dhamma, where we suddenly clean out every part of our lives, tuning our lutes way too tight before either adjusting to the new life or tuning it back down
Reductor
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Re: booze for friends

Post by Reductor »

If you often have friends over, consider putting these things in a box and labeling that box "free to take home for those who drink". Set it at the door through which they leave. Any that are left after a month can then be drained into the sink guilt free as you will have long ago rescinded any ownership over it while allowing others to take ownership by their own volition.
SarathW
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Re: booze for friends

Post by SarathW »

I just wonder whether we can use alcohol to light a lamp. (instead of oil)
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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