Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

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christopher:::
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Post by christopher::: »

Being Muslim doesn't explain his actions, but it seems that his family was from Palestine as well, and he still has relatives there. That, along with the attack on his car (and faith) by a bigoted neighbor, the stories of death and destruction he heard from US soldiers, discrimination he says he experienced in the military (see below), his imminent deployment to Afghanistan, etc. might all have been contributing factors to the vengeful and dualistic mindset he developed....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_ ... d_shooting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

excerpt:

Hasan is the Arlington, Va.-born son of Palestinian parents who ran a restaurant and bar in Roanoke, Va., from 1987 to 1995, and owned a small grocery store in that city. His relatives in the West Bank said they had heard from family members that Hasan felt mistreated in the Army as a Muslim.

"He told (them) that as a Muslim committed to his prayers he was discriminated against and not treated as is fitting for an officer and American," said Mohammed Malik Hasan, 24, a cousin. "He hired a lawyer to get him a discharge."Mohammed Hasan said outside his home in Ramallah that he heard about the shooting from a relative. "I was surprised, honestly, because the guy and his brothers are so calm, and he, as I know, loves his work."

Nidal Hasan is the eldest of three brothers. One brother, Annas, lives in Ramallah with a wife and daughter, and practices law. The youngest brother, Eyad, lives in Virginia. "We don't mix with them a lot," Mohammed said. "Nidal like to stay alone, he was very calm. He minded his own business."
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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A Medic
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Post by A Medic »

I don't know his motivation for this, but if it was to avoid deployment there were other options he could have taken. Such as filing for conscientious objector status, going AWOL, or just refusing to go and being arrested.
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christopher:::
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Post by christopher::: »

Soldiers don't usually go on a rampage with handguns, killing others, just to avoid deployment. Those who knew him say he was very calm and cool. It sounds like he was possibly suppressing intense feelings of anger and rage.

Impossible to be sure, of course.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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catmoon
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Post by catmoon »

One thing is for sure. This incident is a Muslim PR disaster. The optics are terrible.
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

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christopher::: wrote:Soldiers don't usually go on a rampage with handguns, killing others, just to avoid deployment. Those who knew him say he was very calm and cool. It sounds like he was possibly suppressing intense feelings of anger and rage.

Impossible to be sure, of course.

I agree. There are reports that he was being made fun of for being a Muslim. I find this whole incident shocking in many ways. For one he was a psychiatrist. I don't understand how he could do this being a psychiatrist. I just feel like he should have seen the signs in his self, and then know to get help. Unless he didn't want help.

Second I am a soldier in the Army reserves. To me the military is very much like a extended family. What shocked me the most was that a soldier did this to fellow soldiers. Generally from everything I have seen soldiers really do work to help take care of each other because there a re times when all we have is each other.

My hope is that something can be learned from this. :namaste:
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christopher:::
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

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catmoon wrote:One thing is for sure. This incident is a Muslim PR disaster. The optics are terrible.
This is true.

Another attack leaves US Muslims fearing backlash
A Medic wrote:There are reports that he was being made fun of for being a Muslim. I find this whole incident shocking in many ways. For one he was a psychiatrist. I don't understand how he could do this being a psychiatrist. I just feel like he should have seen the signs in his self, and then know to get help. Unless he didn't want help.

Second I am a soldier in the Army reserves. To me the military is very much like a extended family. What shocked me the most was that a soldier did this to fellow soldiers. Generally from everything I have seen soldiers really do work to help take care of each other because there a re times when all we have is each other.

My hope is that something can be learned from this.
I hope so too. For one thing, I think Muslims in America often find themselves in a bit of an identity trap, and Muslims in the military even more so. Where is your loyalty, with whom do you identify? To fellow Americans, to the Army, to fellow Muslims around the world? If you try to do all simultaneously the result can be extreme psychological distress- what is called cognitive dissonance in psychology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think Christian soldiers face this as well, all soldiers do because of the inconsistancy of the views and beliefs most people hold. These various loyalties and identities don't always fit together easily or harmoniously...

So, people try to compartmentalize their identities and feelings. Strong emotions and thoughts don't follow simple patterns of logic easily though, don't fit neatly into compartments, and so can wreck havoc psychologically. Should Hasan have recognized this within himself? I dunno. He was a soldier, a psychiatrist dealing with stories of death and killing, a devout Muslim, an American and a bit of a loner... Not sure if all those different identities and loyalties could be easily dealt with by anyone, no matter how intelligent, on their own...

A related news article...
Suspect told 'There's something wrong with you'

By ANGELA K. BROWN and ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writers

FORT HOOD, Texas – There was the classroom presentation that justified suicide bombings. Comments to colleagues about a climate of persecution faced by Muslims in the military. Conversations with a mosque leader that became incoherent. As a student, some who knew Nidal Malik Hasan said they saw clear signs the young Army psychiatrist — who authorities say went on a shooting spree at Fort Hood that left 13 dead and 29 others wounded — had no place in the military. After arriving at Fort Hood, he was conflicted about what to tell fellow Muslim soldiers about the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, alarming an Islamic community leader from whom he sought counsel.

"I told him, `There's something wrong with you,'" Osman Danquah, co-founder of the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen, told The Associated Press on Saturday. "I didn't get the feeling he was talking for himself, but something just didn't seem right." Danquah assumed the military's chain of command knew about Hasan's doubts, which had been known for more than a year to classmates in a graduate military medical program. His fellow students complained to the faculty about Hasan's "anti-American propaganda," but said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim student kept officers from filing a formal written complaint.

"The system is not doing what it's supposed to do," said Dr. Val Finnell, who studied with Hasan from 2007-2008 in the master's program in public health at the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences. "He at least should have been confronted about these beliefs, told to cease and desist, and to shape up or ship out." Military authorities continued Saturday to refer to Hasan as a suspect in the shootings, and have not yet said if they plan to charge him in a military or civilian court. His family described a man incapable of the attack, calling him a devoted doctor and devout Muslim who showed no signs that he might lash out with violence.

"I've known my brother Nidal to be a peaceful, loving and compassionate person who has shown great interest in the medical field and in helping others," said his brother, Eyad Hasan, of Sterling, Va., in a statement. "He has never committed an act of violence and was always known to be a good, law-abiding citizen."

Others recalled a pleasant neighbor who forgave a fellow soldier charged with tearing up his "Allah is Love" bumper sticker. A superior officer at Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood, Col. Kimberly Kesling, has said Hasan was a quiet man with a strong work ethic who provided excellent care for his patients.

Still, in the days since authorities believe Hasan fired more than 100 rounds in a soldier processing center at Fort Hood in the worst mass shooting on a military facility in the U.S., a picture has emerged of a man who was forcefully opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, was trying to get out of his pending deployment to a war zone and had struggled professionally in his work as an Army psychiatrist.

"He told (them) that as a Muslim committed to his prayers he was discriminated against and not treated as is fitting for an officer and American," said Mohammed Malik Hasan, 24, a cousin, told the AP from his home on the outskirts of the Palestinian city of Ramallah. "He hired a lawyer to get him a discharge."

Twice this summer, Danquah said, Hasan asked him what to tell soldiers who expressed misgivings about fighting fellow Muslims. The retired Army first sergeant and Gulf War veteran said he reminded Hasan that these soldiers had volunteered to fight, and that Muslims were fighting against each other in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Palestinian territories. "But what if a person gets in and feels that it's just not right?" Danquah recalled Hasan asking him.

"I'd give him my response. It didn't seem settled, you know. It didn't seem to satisfy," he said. "It would be like a person playing the devil's advocate. ... I said, `Look. I'm not impressed by you.'" Danquah said he was so disturbed by Hasan's persistent questioning that he recommended the mosque reject Hasan's request to become a lay Muslim leader at Fort Hood. But he never saw a need to tell anyone at the sprawling Army post about the talks, because Hasan never expressed anger toward the Army or indicated any plans for violence. "If I had an inkling that he had this type of inclination or intentions, definitely I would have brought it to their attention," he said.

Finnell said he did just that during a year of study in which Hasan made a presentation "that justified suicide bombing" and spewed "anti-American propaganda" as he argued the war on terror was "a war against Islam." Finnell said he and at least one other student complained about Hasan, surprised that someone with "this type of vile ideology" would be allowed to wear an officer's uniform.

But Finnell said no one filed a formal, written complaint about Hasan's comments out of fear of appearing discriminatory. "In retrospect, I'm not surprised he did it," Finnell said. "I had real questions about what his priorities were, what his beliefs were."
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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pink_trike
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

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The umbrella mental formation known as "religion" creates conditions of mind that very frequently give rise to all sorts of negative beliefs and behaviors, but it is taboo in our religion-obsessed culture to critically examine this meta-level mental formation. It casts a large dark shadow that is ignored by those who stand under its umbrella.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

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christopher:::
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Post by christopher::: »

Hi pink trike,

Well, i agree on some points. We do have various cultural taboos which need to be brought into the light of attention. And there are cohesive belief formations held by groups that are branded "religious" which give rise to shared identity and values. These group-specific beliefs help members determine right from wrong, acceptable from nonacceptable/taboo.

But religion is just one way of creating identity, one umbrella for a cultural set of beliefs and values. It's not the sole mechanism at work. The Chinese have done violence to Tibetans in the name of Communism and a nationalistic sense of identity. Organized gangs like the yakuza in Japan, or druglords in Colombia have their own specific subcultures & social norms- defining acceptable/unacceptable group-level values, beliefs and behaviors.

In the U.S. (and in various countries around the world) many who identify themselves as Muslim tend to emphasize the nonviolent teachings of Islam. If you read the comments of Osman Danquah in that article I just shared he seems to identify most strongly with the U.S. Army, as the group to which he and Hasan should have loyalty.

Hasan's identification with extremist Muslim views and beliefs is not the norm in the United States, though it might be more common in other nations. In the U.S. my sense is that nationalistic identification has a stronger correlation with acceptance and promotion of military values then does identification with the umbrella notion of religion.

It's very much worth examining and discussing these meta-level cultural factors though, I do agree with you there.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
adamposey
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Post by adamposey »

It this man was a Christian we would not be having this conversation. He would just be called out of his mind, and that would be that. I am disappointed in the news media, and disappointed in my fellow Americans that they have allowed this to impact the American muslim community the way it has, and the way it will.

A white, christian, man can drive a car full of explosives into a garage, and declare he did it for God, and no one would dare even include his religion in his rationale. It's just so disappointing to watch this go on. I have nothing but the greatest sympathy for Muslim Americans right now.
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

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adamposey wrote:
A white, christian, man can drive a car full of explosives into a garage, and declare he did it for God, and no one would dare even include his religion in his rationale.
Yes, this is what I meant by my previous post. There's a blind spot there that needs light shone on it...why is it that we nearly always choose not to believe them and don't address it directly?
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

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I agree. No one started beating up Irish when Timothy McVeigh blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. The Irish Republican Army was a terrorist organization at that time. No news reporters suggested a link between McVeigh and the IRA.
Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he is indeed the noblest victor who conquers himself. ---Dhp 103
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

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christopher::: wrote:Hi pink trike,

Well, i agree on some points. We do have various cultural taboos which need to be brought into the light of attention. And there are cohesive belief formations held by groups that are branded "religious" which give rise to shared identity and values. These group-specific beliefs help members determine right from wrong, acceptable from nonacceptable/taboo.

But religion is just one way of creating identity, one umbrella for a cultural set of beliefs and values. It's not the sole mechanism at work. The Chinese have done violence to Tibetans in the name of Communism and a nationalistic sense of identity. Organized gangs like the yakuza in Japan, or druglords in Colombia have their own specific subcultures & social norms- defining acceptable/unacceptable group-level values, beliefs and behaviors.

In the U.S. (and in various countries around the world) many who identify themselves as Muslim tend to emphasize the nonviolent teachings of Islam. If you read the comments of Osman Danquah in that article I just shared he seems to identify most strongly with the U.S. Army, as the group to which he and Hasan should have loyalty.

Hasan's identification with extremist Muslim views and beliefs is not the norm in the United States, though it might be more common in other nations. In the U.S. my sense is that nationalistic identification has a stronger correlation with acceptance and promotion of military values then does identification with the umbrella notion of religion.

It's very much worth examining and discussing these meta-level cultural factors though, I do agree with you there.
Yes, there are many other meta-level mental formations besides religion...nationalism, politics, gender, class, etc...but some get more critical examination than others in our culture. When someone commits a violent act and attributes it to nationalism or class we tend to believe them. When someone commits a violent act and attributes it to religious motivations there is a tendency to scramble to find alternative reasons to explain their actions or to ignore that they said it for fear that the meta-level mental formation of religion will be critically examined...similar to how when there is an alcoholic in a family, meta level examination of the use of alcohol is taboo. Religion is tip-toe'd around in our culture for fear of an explosion of defensiveness if it is looked at criticaly...just like family members tip toe around the issue alcoholism in a alcohol-dysfunctional family.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

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Well, I think there are a number reasons for our difficulty. First, for Americans especially, if we start to dig more deeply into this we'll have to confront the "umbrella" culture of militarism. This is the condoning of violence, for means of defense and vengence, against strangers in foreign lands. It's not a religious dynamic, but has deep roots. It means we have to question nationalism, which is probably as much a taboo as confronting religious identification.

Down thru the ages religion has indeed been a carrier of violence condoning memes, of militarism and vengence seeking. But within most religious traditions there exist very specific "antidotes" to this tendency for violence that we speak of. Islam teaches peace and compassion, as did Jesus, and the Buddha.

So religion is *not* the underlying root cause or problem, imo. When people from various religious traditions support violence their minds have been hijacked by dualistic beliefs and hatred, mutations of values which do not usually reflect the peaceful intentions and views of their founders...
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

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christopher::: wrote:Well, I think there are a number reasons for our difficulty. First, for Americans especially, if we start to dig more deeply into this we'll have to confront the "umbrella" culture of militarism. This is the condoning of violence, for means of defense and vengence, against strangers in foreign lands. It's not a religious dynamic, but has deep roots. It means we have to question nationalism, which is probably as much a taboo as confronting religious identification.

Down thru the ages religion has indeed been a carrier of violence condoning memes, of militarism and vengence seeking. But within most religious traditions there exist very specific "antidotes" to this tendency for violence that we speak of. Islam teaches peace and compassion, as did Jesus, and the Buddha.

So religion is *not* the underlying root cause or problem, imo. When people from various religious traditions support violence their minds have been hijacked by dualistic beliefs and hatred, mutations of values which do not usually reflect the peaceful intentions and views of their founders...
As I was saying...the mental formation of religion always gets a pass. ;)
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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christopher:::
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Post by christopher::: »

pink_trike wrote:
As I was saying...the mental formation of religion always gets a pass. ;)
Always? To the best of my knowledge Fox News has never given the the religion of Islam such a pass...



I just think as Buddhists we are encouraged to look deeper, when seeking to understand and unravel the root causes of dukkha....

:buddha1:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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