Buddhism and alcohol

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perkele
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by perkele »

oncereturner wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:50 amHe prescribed a lot of benzodiazepine.
That is horrible to hear. I hope you can throw this shit far far away.
Have you tried so-called "non-alcoholic" beer (instead of stronger drinks), i.e. that which is not actually non-alcoholic, but contains about 0.5% alcohol? I don't know for sure, but I just imagine that if you'd try to use that honestly, I mean as a substitute, in order to cut down on any stronger alcoholic stuff that you would otherwise consume, perhaps that could be an improvement? The hop contained in beer (also in the "non-alcoholic" one) has a pleasent calming effect (which might outweigh the effect of the little alcohol contained in it). Much healthier for sure than f*** benzodiazepines.
Benzodiazepines destroy all willpower, turn brain into cotton wad and people into mindless zombies and idiots. They are only for the weak. Except maybe in a very short very controlled period of hardcore withdrawal. But how crazy to hand this stuff out for self-medication to someone struggling with alcohol addiction?
binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular »

bodom wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:25 amThis is not a debate.
It should be a discussion, though. People with a problem (such as people with an alcohol addiction) generally still want to be treated like people, and not as if their addiction is all they are or what defines them.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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bodom
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom »

binocular wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:41 pm
bodom wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:25 amThis is not a debate.
It should be a discussion, though. People with a problem (such as people with an alcohol addiction) generally still want to be treated like people, and not as if their addiction is all they are or what defines them.
Hi Binocular

We have all given him our experience, strength and hope. Being a former alcoholic and heroin addict I already understand this. Nobody here has reduced him to nothing but an alcoholic so I'm really unsure as to what it is you mean.

This is the OP:
I feel very good, but next day is very bitter. Every morning I feel I'm going to die.I was in hospital 6 times related to toxication. I've already lost my self-control, I'm heavily addicted, doctor says I have 10 more years left at maximum. I'm 36. Without alcohol, I have no life, I feel depression.

Question is, to live with pain, mental illness, or die young with some joy?

I'm not sure you understand the seriousness of alcoholism and addiction. It truly is a life or death situation. I have been near death many times. I have had many friends who have died. I take this very serious and will give the advice that was given to me and I now give to others. No where did oncereturner say he feels like he is being reduced to nothing but a lowlife alcoholic and no where have I seem anyone do this to him. Oncereturner I apologize if you were made to feel this way. I have already shared with him my experience and hope for him. So again I don't know what your talking about here.

To oncereturner: I wish you nothing but the best man. You know what you need to do. It's up to you now. As the Buddha says he merely points the way.

:namaste:
Do everything with a mind that lets go. Do not expect any praise or reward. If you let go a little, you experience a little peace. If you let go a lot, you experience a lot of peace. If you let go completely, you will know complete peace and freedom. Your struggle with the world will have come to an end.

- Ajahn Chah
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bodom
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom »

One of my favorite songs from my favorite band. I miss old In Flames.

I also agree with your posts. Benzo's are a bad bad idea. They are basically alcohol in a pill form.

:namaste:
Do everything with a mind that lets go. Do not expect any praise or reward. If you let go a little, you experience a little peace. If you let go a lot, you experience a lot of peace. If you let go completely, you will know complete peace and freedom. Your struggle with the world will have come to an end.

- Ajahn Chah
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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner »

perkele wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:38 am
That is horrible to hear. I hope you can throw this shit far far away.
Have you tried so-called "non-alcoholic" beer (instead of stronger drinks), i.e. that which is not actually non-alcoholic, but contains about 0.5% alcohol? I don't know for sure, but I just imagine that if you'd try to use that honestly, I mean as a substitute, in order to cut down on any stronger alcoholic stuff that you would otherwise consume, perhaps that could be an improvement?
I tried it without success. Actually I need only the alcohol witch is contained in the beer. I can only drink beer, other stronger liquors are really disgusting for me.
perkele wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:38 am Benzodiazepines destroy all willpower, turn brain into cotton wad and people into mindless zombies and idiots. They are only for the weak. Except maybe in a very short very controlled period of hardcore withdrawal. But how crazy to hand this stuff out for self-medication to someone struggling with alcohol addiction?
It is crazy. At the psychiatric facility I met with a woman who was extremely anxious. Nurses didn't let her meet the doctor instantly, because he had another patient. She said she has no medicine, I asked her which kind of medicine she needs. The answer was benzo (xanax), so I gave her a pill. I always carry a lots of benzo with me. I couldn't stand to see this suffering. It turned out that she is on benzos for 20 years, and drinking as well. She was alright in 15 minutes. This doctor prescribed benzos for alcoholics.

Work is a madness too, I decided to change. Tomorrow I will go to an interview. If I will not succeed, next time or maybe another time I will change.

I don't like two hours of travelling each day. The major of the city decided to innovate the subway, so it's closed for some years. Traffic has become a nightmare. I'd like a job which is closer.

I hope this complex torture will somehow come to an end. I'm on it, I try to do my best.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8
dharmacorps
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps »

Sad to hear Oncereturner, this doctor did one of the worst possible things by giving you benzos. I am horrified as a medical professional myself to think any doctor, anywhere would do that. I am so sorry that happened. Please stay away from the benzos, they will only make things worse. It is well known in the medical profession to NEVER give benzos to people with substance abuse issues.

Bodom-- thanks for your words on this thread. I also miss early In Flames like Clayman :)
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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner »

bodom wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:10 pm
Oncereturner I apologize if you were made to feel this way. I have already shared with him my experience and hope for him. So again I don't know what your talking about here.

To oncereturner: I wish you nothing but the best man. You know what you need to do. It's up to you now. As the Buddha says he merely points the way.

:namaste:
I feel that you actually help me a lot, thank you again. I drink less and take less benzos as well. My condition may not as wrong what you were experienced. I'm close to go down that road what you've been to.

Binocular and other members also help me a lot.

I'm very tired of work for now, I can't even think. Next week on my holiday I will think it over again. Rehab, self- help, or AA, I don't know now, but this must be stop immediately.

I'm gonna update you on my progress.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8
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bodom
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom »

dharmacorps wrote:Bodom-- thanks for your words on this thread. I also miss early In Flames like Clayman :)
One of the best metal records ever and the pioneers of the Gothenburg metal movement. Amazing to see so many In Flames fans on one thread!

:namaste:
Do everything with a mind that lets go. Do not expect any praise or reward. If you let go a little, you experience a little peace. If you let go a lot, you experience a lot of peace. If you let go completely, you will know complete peace and freedom. Your struggle with the world will have come to an end.

- Ajahn Chah
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bodom
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom »

oncereturner wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:22 pm
bodom wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:10 pm
Oncereturner I apologize if you were made to feel this way. I have already shared with him my experience and hope for him. So again I don't know what your talking about here.

To oncereturner: I wish you nothing but the best man. You know what you need to do. It's up to you now. As the Buddha says he merely points the way.

:namaste:
I feel that you actually help me a lot, thank you again. I drink less and take less benzos as well. My condition may not as wrong what you were experienced. I'm close to go down that road what you've been to.

Binocular and other members also help me a lot.

I'm very tired of work for now, I can't even think. Next week on my holiday I will think it over again. Rehab, self- help, or AA, I don't know now, but this must be stop immediately.

I'm gonna update you on my progress.
Just keep doing your best and everything else will fall into place.

:namaste:
Do everything with a mind that lets go. Do not expect any praise or reward. If you let go a little, you experience a little peace. If you let go a lot, you experience a lot of peace. If you let go completely, you will know complete peace and freedom. Your struggle with the world will have come to an end.

- Ajahn Chah
binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular »

oncereturner wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:46 pmI tried it without success. Actually I need only the alcohol witch is contained in the beer. I can only drink beer, other stronger liquors are really disgusting for me.
What food are you eating? Are you getting enough nutrients? If you have poor nutrition, perhaps the craving for beer is a way that your body tries to compensate for it.
Try to eat wholesome food, regularly, and enough of it.

As for the long commute to work: find something to do in that time, such as reading, listening to podcasts/Dhamma talks, planning your time.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner »

dharmacorps wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:14 pm Sad to hear Oncereturner, this doctor did one of the worst possible things by giving you benzos. I am horrified as a medical professional myself to think any doctor, anywhere would do that. I am so sorry that happened. Please stay away from the benzos, they will only make things worse. It is well known in the medical profession to NEVER give benzos to people with substance abuse issues.

Bodom-- thanks for your words on this thread. I also miss early In Flames like Clayman :)
As a medical professional you say that this doctor does the worst thing. I agree with this. 5 years ago I went to this doctor, and I said I have alcohol abuse problems, and I have OCD as well. He prescribed me benzos and SSRI. I'm horrified too. These drugs and alcohol together is a very wrong mix.

I think if he does this, maybe his other suggestions are wrong as well. Now I'm not only an alcohol addict, I'm addicted to benzos too.

After work I'm already very anxious, and I must commute for another hour. This is too much for me. I feel that my brain blows apart and explodes. My blood pressure is in the skies, I must drink.

Just one more day of work madness and I will go to holiday.

Alcohol also suppress my OCD. if I don't drink for some days, I have experience unwanted thoughts. For several hours I don't do anything just staring to the emptiness, and hours pass by and I realize I'm obsessed with meaningless thoughts and wasted a lot of time.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8
binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular »

bodom wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:10 pmWe have all given him our experience, strength and hope. Being a former alcoholic and heroin addict I already understand this. Nobody here has reduced him to nothing but an alcoholic so I'm really unsure as to what it is you mean.

We've all been telling him to go out and do this and that, and said things like
bodom wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:28 pm /.../ and this thread will continue to grow longer and longer with no change.
basically telling him to stop talking and start doing. But this can nevertheless feel like a rejection, when one focuses just on the part about "stop talking."
In such discussions, I often have the impression that the person is being told, between the lines, "You have received enough advice and attention. Get your act together and don't come back until you've done so." Which isn't necessarily bad advice, but it is a form of rejection (which is often hard enough to deal with). And also, maybe the person has some issues the feel they need to talk about, but now aren't allowed to, which makes their recovery more difficult.

Anyway, this could be a good time to clarify whether this is happening here or not.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner »

binocular wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:56 pm
bodom wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:28 pm /.../ and this thread will continue to grow longer and longer with no change.
basically telling him to stop talking and start doing. But this can nevertheless feel like a rejection, when one focuses just on the part about "stop talking."
In such discussions, I often have the impression that the person is being told, between the lines, "You have received enough advice and attention. Get your act together and don't come back until you've done so." Which isn't necessarily bad advice, but it is a form of rejection (which is often hard enough to deal with). And also, maybe the person has some issues the feel they need to talk about, but now aren't allowed to, which makes their recovery more difficult.

Anyway, this could be a good time to clarify whether this is happening here or not.
Yes I need continuous help. Bodom showed me the path to hell. I remember his words.

"Please I beg of you to get help". I repeat it on and on again every day. He is a wiseman.

I've already seen alcoholic madmen in the hospital. One of them said he is actually Jesus Christ and he won the lottery... There was a lot of them in the psychiatric facility.

But please tell me how to handle these obsessive compulsive thoughts. I think it's impossible without medicine. I guess I need an SSRI.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8
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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner »

Bodom's (wiseman) words really touched my heart.


"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8
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bodom
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom »

Thank you oncereturner. I have only your best interest in heart my man regardless of what anyone else might think. I have been through that hell that you are in. There is a way out I promise you. It is the old saying, "If your going through hell, keep going!"

It will pass I promise you. And I love the Scorpions they're one of my very favorite bands!

:namaste:
Do everything with a mind that lets go. Do not expect any praise or reward. If you let go a little, you experience a little peace. If you let go a lot, you experience a lot of peace. If you let go completely, you will know complete peace and freedom. Your struggle with the world will have come to an end.

- Ajahn Chah
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