Osama bin Laden is dead

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cooran
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by cooran »

alan wrote:You're right, Ben.
No point being hateful. My apologies. Stick with Dhamma. I'll try to do that.
Good to read this alan. It is natural that at first unwholesome feelings will flash up - but, as time passes, we may be able to view Osama with compassion - particularly knowing the akusala kamma he has incurred.

with metta
Chris
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adosa
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by adosa »

Rahula wrote:
The Iraq war lead by George W. Bush because of wrong information killed many more innocent people than Al-Qaida ever killed.
George W. Bush's conduct was not more moral than the conduct of Bin Laden.

Having delight in the death of anyone of these killers is lead by delusion.
As is clinging to view, which induces suffering as much as any other form of clinging.


adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183
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BlackBird
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by BlackBird »

alan wrote:You're right, Ben.
No point being hateful. My apologies. Stick with Dhamma. I'll try to do that.
Refreshingly honest.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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plwk
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by plwk »

I had to ask...is Ben Laden even 'real'?
David2
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by David2 »

adosa wrote:
Rahula wrote:
The Iraq war lead by George W. Bush because of wrong information killed many more innocent people than Al-Qaida ever killed.
George W. Bush's conduct was not more moral than the conduct of Bin Laden.

Having delight in the death of anyone of these killers is lead by delusion.
As is clinging to view, which induces suffering as much as any other form of clinging.


adosa
Do you mean anything in my post indicates that I am clinging to something?
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Alex123
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by Alex123 »

alan wrote:I'm happy to hear it. To hell with him!

This is terrible. A Buddhist should not condone this. Everyone deserves forgiveness, and everyone deserves compassion. I wish Osama happiness and to change his ways. Americans bomb other nations, install their own dictators, try to grab their resources, and wonder why people hate them. This death will solve nothing but to enrage muslims even more.

No matter how much we dislike someone, it is no reason to hate.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."
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tiltbillings
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by tiltbillings »

Alex123 wrote:
alan wrote: Everyone deserves forgiveness, and everyone deserves compassion. I wish Osama happiness and to change his ways.
Sure, after he gets to spend awhile in a hell realm where he gets to experience the fear, the anguish, the sense of loss, the terror and the physical pain of each of the victims of what he perpetrated, and add to that the pain, anguish, and enduring sense of loss felt by each of the victims' loved ones. Then we can talk about compassion and forgiveness. Anything else is glibness that has no basis in human reality.

He needs to feel what this man felt and what his family felt:


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>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by tiltbillings »

Alex123 wrote:Americans bomb other nations, install their own dictators, try to grab their resources, and wonder why people hate them.
The Americans are pikers compared to the British and their very long and horrible history. Even so, it is no excuse for Bin Laden's bahavior
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Alex123
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by Alex123 »

Hello Tilt,

Angulimala, a mass murderer who killed 999 people, became an Arahant. So people can change, and may even have a soft side (despite one sided portrayal by the media). And in any case, it is not a reason to hate someone or wish them ill.

5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tiltbillings wrote: He needs to feel what this man felt and what his family felt:
That is hatred/ill will. This "eye for an eye" may be within Christianity, but not Dhamma. I am against murder, and do not approve of it, but it is not a reason to hate the suffering person.
Last edited by Alex123 on Tue May 03, 2011 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."
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tiltbillings
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by tiltbillings »

Alex123 wrote:. So people can change,
I did not say people cannot change, but I am not jejunely naive about it.
tiltbillings wrote: He needs to feel what this man felt and what his family felt:
That is hatred/ill will. This "eye for an eye" may be within Christianity, but not Dhamma. I am against murder, and do not approve of it, but it is not a reason to hate the suffering person.
Hatred? Not at all. You do not understand compassion. Take the word at its radical root. It is something Bin Laden obviously did not understand and was totally incapable of understanding, and stint in a hell realm where he would have to experience the suffering of others would be a good thing for him.

As for the rest of your msg, it is to be ignored.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
meindzai
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by meindzai »

My facebook page is lighting up with celebration, and apparently everybody is suddenly patriotic again. I clicked on a news story link and there was a battery commercial that was already playing on the patriotic theme - the sappy, swelling music, the slow motion flags waving. The same type of thing I remember seeing after 9/11. Undoubtedly it will help if not assure that Obama gets re-elected. I don't know what else the result will be. It all seems rather perverse. You can have whatever opinion on it you want. The only resounding message that comes screaming out from my computer and radio today is this: This is Samsara.

-M
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Alex123
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by Alex123 »

tiltbillings wrote:
Alex123 wrote:. So people can change,
I did not say people cannot change, but I am not jejunely naive about it.
You may not be "jejunely naive about it", but you are wishing him to hell. That hateful attitude is not Buddhist.

Remember 4 Brahmaviharas? We are supposed to send metta & karuṇā even to the enemies.


This action will not solve anything. If anything, it will simply enrage muslims more. It will give them more motivation for revenge. Muslims had their reasons to take their revenge, now they have even more.
Last edited by Alex123 on Mon May 02, 2011 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."
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tiltbillings
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by tiltbillings »

Alex123 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Alex123 wrote:. So people can change,
I did not say people cannot change, but I am not jejunely naive about it.
You may not be "jejunely naive about it", but you are wishing him to hell. That hateful attitude is not Buddhist.

Remember 4 Brahmaviharas? We are supposed to send metta & karuṇā even to the enemies.
I am wishing for him to learn compassion -- anukampa -- sympathy in its fullest meaning of those words. He obviously had not a clue.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Alex123
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by Alex123 »

tiltbillings wrote:I am wishing for him to learn compassion -- anukampa -- sympathy in its fullest meaning of those words. He obviously had not a clue.
He was doing what he was trained by Americans to do.

He had his reasons to hate America. Why is it wrong for him to take his revenge, yet is alright for Americans to kill thousands of civilians in illegal wars using illegal weapons (DU ammunition)?

Judging by your attitude, if you lived in his conditions (where your people were slaughtered by more powerful nations) you would be exactly the same. "They did us wrong, so lets do them wrong".

As Buddhists we must develop more loving kindness and compassion, regardless of what they did, and regardless of their wisdom (or lack of it). It doesn't mean we affirm what they did.


I hope that now since it is over, Obama brings back the troops and spends more money for peaceful ends.
Last edited by Alex123 on Mon May 02, 2011 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."
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tiltbillings
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Post by tiltbillings »

Alex123 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:I am wishing for him to learn compassion -- anukampa -- sympathy in its fullest meaning of those words. He obviously had not a clue.
He was doing what he was trained by Americans to do.
Non-sense, and this really warrants no response.

As I said, I hope Bin Laden gets the opportunity to develop compassion/sympathy from first hand experience.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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