Oops! ... I always thought these two are identical .
https://www.naturespath.com/en-us/blog/ ... ifference/
Can quote the passage you are referring to? I have not found anywhere in this sutta where there Buddha says vegetarianism is a form of self torture.
I will refuse meat, thanks. I've been vegan since 1984, and have no plans to change.
There is nothing there about vegetarianism. The foods listed are poor quality, that's all. As per my and DNS's posts above, one could be vegetarian and committed to sensual delight.Gwi wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:37 pm
The Buddha said this:
“And what person mortifies themselves, committed to the practice of mortifying themselves? It’s when someone goes naked, ignoring conventions. They lick their hands, and don’t come or wait when asked. They don’t consent to food brought to them, or food prepared for them, or an invitation for a meal. They don’t receive anything from a pot or bowl; or from someone who keeps sheep, or who has a weapon or a shovel in their home; or where a couple is eating; or where there is a woman who is pregnant, breastfeeding, or who has a man in her home; or where there’s a dog waiting or flies buzzing. They accept no fish or meat or liquor or wine, and drink no beer. They go to just one house for alms, taking just one mouthful, or two houses and two mouthfuls, up to seven houses and seven mouthfuls. They feed on one saucer a day, two saucers a day, up to seven saucers a day. They eat once a day, once every second day, up to once a week, and so on, even up to once a fortnight. They live committed to the practice of eating food at set intervals.
They eat herbs, millet, wild rice, poor rice, water lettuce, rice bran, scum from boiling rice, sesame flour, grass, or cow dung. They survive on forest roots and fruits, or eating fallen fruit.
They wear robes of sunn hemp, mixed hemp, corpse-wrapping cloth, rags, lodh tree bark, antelope hide (whole or in strips), kusa grass, bark, wood-chips, human hair, horse-tail hair, or owls’ wings. They tear out their hair and beard, committed to this practice. They constantly stand, refusing seats. They squat, committed to the endeavor of squatting. They lie on a mat of thorns, making a mat of thorns their bed. They’re committed to the practice of immersion in water three times a day, including the evening. And so they live committed to practicing these various ways of mortifying and tormenting the body. This is called a person who mortifies themselves, being committed to the practice of mortifying themselves." (MN 51)
... They accept no fish or meat ...
Yes those practices and the others that the Buddha has listed were being undertaken with wrong view. The Buddha is talking about the torture of one self through self mortification. If vegetarianism was self torture the Buddha would have forbid it and laid it down in the Vinaya. He gave us choices.
I following what Buddhå Gotamå said.bodom wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:08 pmYes those practices and the others that the Buddha has listed were being undertaken with wrong view. The Buddha is talking about the torture of one self through self mortification. If vegetarianism was self torture the Buddha would have forbid it and laid it down in the Vinaya.
As do I and I am not personally a vegetarian. A vegetarian may be torturing themselves if they were starving to death and had no other food options besides meat and still refused to eat it.Gwi wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:14 pmI following what Buddhå Gotamå said...bodom wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:08 pmYes those practices and the others that the Buddha has listed were being undertaken with wrong view. The Buddha is talking about the torture of one self through self mortification. If vegetarianism was self torture the Buddha would have forbid it and laid it down in the Vinaya.
The topic is about vegetarianism not mats of thorns. As I have said I am not personally a vegetarian and the Buddha certainly didn't forbid it or say it was self torture so I will let those who are speak for themselves. The Buddha has already spoken for me.