Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī

[Ontheway]

In Okkantasamyutta section of Samyutta Nikaya, Buddha classified his followers into two groups: Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī.

Refer to the ten Suttas here:
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga

Which one is you?
I chose the second one.

[rolling_boulder]

I guess you should have included "Sotapanna" as one of the options, lol.

As for myself, I suppose I am a dhammanusari.

[Ontheway]

I guess you should have included "Sotapanna" as one of the options, lol.

As for myself, I suppose I am a dhammanusari.

According to the Suttas, both Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī will eventually gain Sotapatti Phala.

Just continue with practice.

[Coëmgenu]

So in non-Theravāda, AFAIK, a dharmānusārin is necessarily a stream-entrant. Is there such a thing as a non-stream-entrant dhammānusārī in Theravāda?

The sutta linked in the OP seems to suggest that the dhammānusārī is a stream-entry "candidate." The four persons of the path get split into eight when they are divided between persons with fruition and persons with candidacy for fruition. Is this the case here?

[DooDoot]

In Okkantasamyutta section of Samyutta Nikaya, Buddha classified his followers into two groups: Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī.

The above sounds wrong. In the sutta quoted:

1. The faith follower has saddahati adhimuccati

2. The dhamma follower has paññāya mattaso nijjhānaṁ khamanti

3. The stream-enterer has pajānāti passati

The sutta is not about once-again-returners, non-returners & arahants therefore is not about all of the Buddha's followers.

[Ontheway]

So in non-Theravāda, AFAIK, a dharmānusārin is necessarily a stream-entrant. Is there such a thing as a non-stream-entrant dhammānusārī in Theravāda?

The sutta linked in the OP seems to suggest that the dhammānusārī is a stream-entry "candidate." The four persons of the path get split into eight when they are divided between persons with fruition and persons with candidacy for fruition. Is this the case here?

Both Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī are not Sotapanna yet. They still need to practice more.

[Gwi]

In Okkantasamyutta section of Samyutta Nikaya, Buddha classified his followers into two groups: Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī.

Refer to the ten Suttas here:
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga

Which one is you?
I chose the second one.

"Someone who understands and sees these principles [Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī] is called a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening.”

They r both Sotāpannås.

U know 2 Arahats? It is same case like this.

Saddhānusārī --> Sotāpannå
Dhammānusārī ---> Sotāpannå too

Want to become "Saddhānusārī"
means not a Sotāpannå.

Become Saddhānusārī = (become) Sotāpannå

The commenters say they are different
(with Sotāpannå), but not from Aṭṭhakathā.

Not fake, but wrong (wrong opinion)

[DooDoot]

Not liable to be reborn in the underworld

Fake translation. The Pali is:

avinipātadhammā

[Saddhānusārī --> Sotāpannå
Dhammānusārī ---> Sotāpannå too

Evidence please?

[Gwi]

I guess you should have included "Sotapanna" as one of the options, lol.

As for myself, I suppose I am a dhammanusari.

According to the Suttas, both Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī will eventually gain Sotapatti Phala.

Just continue with practice.

Sotapatti Maggå = He/she didn't realize his accomplishments
Sotapatti Phalå = (when) understand he/she is Sotāpannå

Sotapatti Maggå = if upāsakå/upāsikā, they can
Ded before (becomes) Sotapatti Phalå or they can know it
(Before ded to become Sotapatti Phalå).

Sotapatti Phalå = if bhikkhu, he "CANT DED", before
He knows he is Sotāpannå.

[DooDoot]

Sotapatti Maggå = He/she didn't realize his accomplishments

Sounds strange. Evidence please? Thanks

[Ontheway]

In Okkantasamyutta section of Samyutta Nikaya, Buddha classified his followers into two groups: Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī.

Refer to the ten Suttas here:
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga

Which one is you?
I chose the second one.

"Someone who understands and sees these principles [Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī] is called a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening.”

They r both Sotāpannås.

U know 2 Arahats? It is same case like this.

Saddhānusārī --> Sotāpannå
Dhammānusārī ---> Sotāpannå too

Want to become "Saddhānusārī"
means not a Sotāpannå.

Become Saddhānusārī = (become) Sotāpannå

The commenters say they are different
(with Sotāpannå), but not from Aṭṭhakathā.

Not fake, but wrong (wrong opinion)

You misinterpret the Suttanta texts again.

"One with faith in the teachings on the six interior sense fields is called a “follower by faith”, while someone with conceptual understanding is called a “follower of the teachings”. But someone who sees them directly is called a stream-enterer."

https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga

[DooDoot]

"One with faith in the teachings on the six interior sense fields is called a “follower by faith”, while someone with conceptual understanding is called a “follower of the teachings”. But someone who sees them directly is called a stream-enterer."

https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga

[Gwi]

Sotapatti Maggå = He/she didn't realize his accomplishments

Sounds strange. Evidence please? Thanks

A tree that bears fruit, it must bear fruit.
But, when the tree is not yet fruitful, can you see the fruit?

[Gwi]

In Okkantasamyutta section of Samyutta Nikaya, Buddha classified his followers into two groups: Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī.

Refer to the ten Suttas here:
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga

Which one is you?
I chose the second one.

"Someone who understands and sees these principles [Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī] is called a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening.”

They r both Sotāpannås.

U know 2 Arahats? It is same case like this.

Saddhānusārī --> Sotāpannå
Dhammānusārī ---> Sotāpannå too

Want to become "Saddhānusārī"
means not a Sotāpannå.

Become Saddhānusārī = (become) Sotāpannå

The commenters say they are different
(with Sotāpannå), but not from Aṭṭhakathā.

Not fake, but wrong (wrong opinion)

You misinterpret the Suttanta texts again.

"One with faith in the teachings on the six interior sense fields is called a “follower by faith”, while someone with conceptual understanding is called a “follower of the teachings”. But someone who sees them directly is called a stream-enterer."

https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga

Read that Suttå again. I didnt see: "BUT" someone.



"Someone who understands and sees these principles [Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī] is called a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening.”

[DooDoot]

A tree that bears fruit, it must bear fruit.
But, when the tree is not yet fruitful, can you see the fruit?

Sounds like Jesus & Christianity.

Jesus Curses a Fig Tree

The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.

Mark 11:12-25